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Smokey Black or Sooty Buckskin?

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  • Smokey Black or Sooty Buckskin?

    Just as the title says, what color do you think this colt is? I was fairly certain that the mare was AA based on the lack on black present in her pedigree, however, this colt has me second guessing everything.

    I plan on testing both momma and baby for agouti and extension, as well as cream for baby while I'm at it.

    His dilute parts look more tan than the red that you normally see with sooty buckskins. Hmm...

    What do you think?

    (Oh, and let's ignore the ambiguous brown for now. )

    One day old pictures...
    http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...r/IMG_2800.jpg
    http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...r/IMG_2778.jpg
    http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...r/IMG_2813.jpg

    The "big picture" with momma in the sun at 2 days old.
    http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...e/IMG_3104.jpg
    http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...IMG_3023-1.jpg

    Some color details.
    http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...l/IMG_3238.jpg
    http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...l/IMG_3239.jpg
    http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...l/IMG_3240.jpg
    http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...l/IMG_3241.jpg

    Verdict?
    Pacific Coast Eventing
    Standing Yeager GF

  • #2
    I'm guessing that neither mare nor foal will test "aa" or with cream.

    Sorry but they both look like a classic case of seal brown to me.

    Comment


    • #3
      The pale fluff inside her ears might suggest the presence of a cream gene. Where do you think that may have come from? Mum looks pretty unlikely to be a sooty buckskin herself. Does the sire carry a dilute gene?

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm going to say that the baby is smokey black (but I'd have him tested for brown just for kicks, in which case I guess he would be a smokey brown?). Mom looks like a plain old dark bay/brown to me, definitely not anything dilute going on there.

        Do you know the color of the sire?

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Yes, the sire is Yeager GF, who tested EeAaCrcr.

          Definitely no cream with the mare, that's for sure.
          Pacific Coast Eventing
          Standing Yeager GF

          Comment


          • #6
            In that case I'd say definitely a sooty buckskin. And a very pretty one!

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              And the debate goes on.

              1 for plain seal brown, 1 for smokey black/brown, 1 for sooty buckskin.

              I REALLY doubt that he doesn't have cream based on the ears tufts and eyes...

              Honestly, he could be green with yellow polka dots and I would still be super happy with this colt, but it's been neat to not have the same old.
              Pacific Coast Eventing
              Standing Yeager GF

              Comment


              • #8
                Suz I am 100% that this mare will test Ata or AtAt. You know what color I think he is
                Stübben North America
                Los Angeles - Ventura County - San Luis Obispo

                Comment


                • #9
                  ***Waves hand madly***

                  You KNOW what I think!!!

                  Smoky black from this corner ...

                  And I think he is just fabulous as well and will be a perfect event prospect for you down the road ... love the elegance and the bravery and how he handles those long legs at such an early age

                  Nice nice colt ...
                  www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                  www.truecoloursproducts.com

                  True Colours Farm on Facebook

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    my guess is sooty Buckskin.
                    You are right though, no matter his color he is beautiful that is for sure!!!
                    Worth A Shot Farm
                    Finding the horse of your dreams, is always Worth A Shot!
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                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I vote for smokey black also.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I've given up guessing, lol. I've had two homozygous blacks who looked silverish, one smoky black that looked black, and one smoky black that looked buckskin, and a black and white pinto that looked buckskin and white. I'm hopeless, I have to rely almost entirely on DNA. Your foal is cute, but I couldn't even begin to guess the color!

                        Here are some of mine, to see how colors can fool you:
                        Homozygous black who looks silverish tan:
                        http://www.riveroaksfarm.net/Lauderdale_0905_053p.JPG
                        Smoky black who looked buckskin:
                        http://www.riveroaksfarm.net/aBalticcutepsitiny.JPG
                        Smoky black who looked black:
                        http://www.riveroaksfarm.net/Boca419f.JPG
                        Homozygous black who looked silverish, and with "zebra" strips:
                        http://www.riveroaksfarm.net/koloasfoal3.JPG
                        And a black and white pinto that looks buckskin and white:
                        http://www.riveroaksfarm.net/psiMarl...e_cats_011.JPG
                        River Oaks Farm - home of the Elite Book Friesian Sporthorse Grand Prix dressage stallion Lexington - sire of four consecutive FSA National Inspection Champions. Endorsing the FSA.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          He looks very much like my colt who is by a Buckskin (going grey) stallion out of a bay mare.
                          My colt Brightsilver.
                          Fox Haven Farm, Inc.
                          Home of 2002 JC Registered stallion Artrageous

                          Artrageous has his own Facebook page!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I keep going back and forth between sooty buckskin and smokey black myself - after seeing these pix though, I think my official guess will be sooty buckskin. He looks sooo much like Aero did early on!

                            Check out the first few pics in Aero's "3 day old gallery" on this page:
                            http://www.warmblood-color.com/Pages...oals/Aero.html

                            Whatever he is, he's a cutie for sure! Keep us posted when you get the DNA tests back!
                            Blacktree Farm
                            Lessons, Training & Sporthorse Sales.
                            Blacktree Studio
                            Graphic Design, Web Design & Photography.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yeager carries some sort of superpowered sooty gene, though doesn't he? Do his babies turn out as dark as he is?

                              Beautiful baby- I am voting that the mare tests positive for brown and the baby is sooty buckskin like Yeager, but I don't have enough baby experience to actually support my guess as anything other than an entry into the pool

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Well, I'm not tested for brown simply because I KNOW the mare is brown and, if the baby comes back positive for agouti, he's probably brown, too! If he is A_, then I may test for brown down the line, but I'm just not that worried about it. Most people see brown and say bay anyways, so what's the point? Also, trying to constantly correct people that the foal is smokey brown, not buckskin, will just get their heads spinning and make me sound pretentious!

                                Pacific Coast Eventing
                                Standing Yeager GF

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Its the same color of daddy as a foal so its a dark buckskin. If you still call that buckskin as the dam of Midnight Dream GF (Yeager GF now) was a very dark black bay.
                                  Gwendolyn
                                  http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com
                                  Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabians

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by aurum View Post
                                    Its the same color of daddy as a foal so its a dark buckskin. If you still call that buckskin as the dam of Midnight Dream GF (Yeager GF now) was a very dark black bay.
                                    Thanks Gwen. That would be VERY cool and I totally wouldn't mind having a baby that same color, which I think is GORGEOUS.
                                    Pacific Coast Eventing
                                    Standing Yeager GF

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I just had this wonderful, long reply but then accidentally clicked a link and lost it!!

                                      Originally posted by Ambrey View Post
                                      Yeager carries some sort of superpowered sooty gene, though doesn't he? Do his babies turn out as dark as he is?

                                      Beautiful baby- I am voting that the mare tests positive for brown and the baby is sooty buckskin like Yeager, but I don't have enough baby experience to actually support my guess as anything other than an entry into the pool
                                      ACC suggested this recently, and now I believe her theory. I think Yeager is Ata-- smoky brown/brown buckskin.

                                      Yeager's oldest foal is in his 3 year old year, and he is even darker than Yeager but has tested positive for cream. This colt is out of a black mare, so she has had no agouti to contribute to the equation; it came from Yeager. The same mare has had a dark buckskin colt and a chestnut colt. He has had two obviously BAY foals that I know of--out of bay mares Baron is a dark red bay but his dam was also a red bay. This new "bay or buckskin" filly out of the AWS mare is IMO bay, but her dam was bay as well. Now we have Suzie's smoky brown/black (IMO) colt out of an Ata/AtAt mare (I also would not fall out of my chair if she tested aa) and another smoky brown/black colt out of a black/dark brown mare (Sakura).

                                      He has a chestnut out of a chestnut, and palomino out of brown and grey. He also had a buckskin-looking colt out of a chestnut mare but I think he was euthanized due to an accident before he really shed out

                                      To sum up what I am trying to say: Yeager has not thrown a definite A (and not At) to mares that are Ata/AtAt or aa. I think it is safer to say that he does not have an A to pass on, than to assume he is homozygous for sooty.

                                      Originally posted by SuZQuzie View Post
                                      Well, I'm not tested for brown simply because I KNOW the mare is brown and, if the baby comes back positive for agouti, he's probably brown, too! If he is A_, then I may test for brown down the line, but I'm just not that worried about it. Most people see brown and say bay anyways, so what's the point? Also, trying to constantly correct people that the foal is smokey brown, not buckskin, will just get their heads spinning and make me sound pretentious!

                                      Suzie, you are required to pull more hairs and test for brown if he comes back AA, or if he comes back Aa and Penny comes back aa. That will be the true test

                                      Originally posted by aurum View Post
                                      Its the same color of daddy as a foal so its a dark buckskin. If you still call that buckskin as the dam of Midnight Dream GF (Yeager GF now) was a very dark black bay.
                                      I think the OP would love it if the foal came out the same color!

                                      Just wanted to post pictures of his full sister and dam off your site...We know Mascarpone is Aa, and I would honestly not be surprised if Amadine was At?.

                                      Full sister is Majolika: http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.de/gffoals1999.html
                                      Stübben North America
                                      Los Angeles - Ventura County - San Luis Obispo

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        I'm going to collect hairs now.
                                        Pacific Coast Eventing
                                        Standing Yeager GF

                                        Comment

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