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What is your opinion in this situation ...

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  • #21
    Sorry to be such a downer, but I wouldn't do it.

    A good disposition is worth it's weight in gold.

    My mare isn't specatacular, barely passed the CSHA qualifications, but has the most AMAZING temperament, a trait she has passed on to her (much prettier) filly. Failing all else (ridability, fertility etc.) the mare is an absolute pleasure to be around - and for that reason, we will have her until she dies. My husband loves her.

    If she had the temperament this mare sounds like she has, she'd be gone in a minute - and I know that sounds harsh.

    There are already too many unsound, unfit and insane horses in the world - why add to them?

    I'm so sorry I couldn't be more positive.

    My physics teacher in high school used to always say "They're ain't no free lunch" and in this case, it is true!


    • #22
      I think the owners are doing the right thing and the kind thing for her and everyone else. Do you really want her hanging from a meat hook? They could just get rid of her that way, at least they have the decency not to do that. Sorry but there are so many nice horses that do not have her temperment that need homes and don't get them, I just can't see breeding one with her history and background. Why continue a obviously dangerous and bad trait?


      • #23
        Personally, if I was a stallion owner, I wouldn't want to risk his reputation on breeding to such a mare.


        • #24
          The bay mare looks like a pretty lady. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] With that chin spot and the high white you described, she sounds like she is a sabino. Hooray. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

          MUCH better for your program. Good luck.

          God forbid that I should go to any Heaven in which there are no horses.
          ~R. Graham
          God forbid that I should go to any Heaven in which there are no horses.
          ~R. Graham


          • #25
            You made the right choice in deciding not to breed the mare. I hate nothing more than bad tempered mares being bred just because they happen to be tall, pretty and a nice colour. It turns my stomach when people decide to breed their mare because they hate riding them. Hope this new mare works out for you.


            • #26
              or would not take this mare. Yes, free is expensive as one other poster noticed. My only comment to this very good dialog would be, I have seen crazy mares turn into very good moms. Mother nature has a way that we do not understand or appreciate. I don't know that I would pass on her just because of her behavior in the barn and on the track. Those are stressful situations. The history of passing this trait on is worrisome, but again, is that nature or nuture??? The BIG question. If you have the time and the space, you might want to give this nice mare a chance. I always root for the underdog and have often times come up with a winner. Just giving a devils advocate posistion... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]


              • #27
                And yet another of my altruisms:

                A GOOD horseman knows when to say when.


                • #28
                  Don't you think he deserved better? He was trained to buck and it's not his fault that he had a somewhat rough life. It really hurts me to read that you simply sent him for meat because he bucked you off. Could you have not GIVEN him away to somebody looking for a babysitter or companion horse. I understand that you don't want to see anybody else get hurt, but sending him for meat? Come on! That's unfair! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]


                  • #29
                    While what's done is done, a bullet between the eyes or euthansia is often a kinder fate than the trip to slaughter.


                    • #30
                      As with some of the other posts, if you are aware (which it sounds like you are) that these undesirable and dangerous traits exist in her lineage, then I feel the most responsible action is not to breed her. Yes, you can possibly take her and see how she settles out in 6 months or so - to see if there is a change, BUT for the foal's sake and the stallion's sake, as well as her own, I would definitely recommend against breeding her. Some hope may exist that she will calm down in a different and more quiet environment. But then again, maybe not. I don't mean to dishearten you, but realistically, there are enough mediocre horses born into the world that come from parents who should not have been bred in the first place. This is not to say that the parents could not excel in other areas, such as performance. Not all horses should be bred. I think a disservice would be done to all if she is bred despite these problems that exist in her lineage, as well as in her own temperament. JMHO. Whatever your decision, very best wishes. And as another post mentioned, eventhough a mare contributes at least 50% to the equation, typically, the stallion is the one held responsible, and this would be very unfair in this case.

                      Hawk's Run Trakehners - home of the outstanding German Trakehner stallion, "Happy Hour"
                      \"HAPPY HOUR\" & Hawk\'s Run Trakehners

                      \"The only price of admission is curiosity.\"
                      Proud Member of Team Barbaro!


                      • #31
                        Not to bash you, but I must agree that I would have put the nutcase down rather than send him for meat. Not really his fault he got into that predicament, he was low cost to begin with, and it would have been a much better end.

                        HAVING SAID THAT -

                        I commend you for posting your story. Not many people like to admit defeat.


                        • #32
                          Spot, I have NO problem with horses being eaten. I wouldn't eat a horse, but I agree with you, if I eat a cow or a lamb or a pig, who am I to criticize someone who eats a horse?

                          Having said that, I have 2 problems with horses being sent to slaughter: 1. If the horse is to reach slaughter via auction (in this area, New Holland, PA) anyone can buy it. I don't know of ANY way to guarantee the horse goes to slaughter. Even if it is sold directly to the killer truck, the driver can choose to resell it. Thus, the only way to ensure a dangerous horse does not continue to be a danger is to euthanize it. 2. I am concerned about inhumane treatment on the way to slaughter. Here, horses sold for slaughter in PA must be trailered through New York State (a long trip) to Canada to slaughter. Horrible, horrible things happen--horses freeze to death in winter; truck floors give way & horses die being dragged down the highway or have their legs chewed off by the road; horses go down during transport & are trampled; horses are forced into double decker trucks which are so low the horse cannot stand up with its legs straight let alone put its head up.

                          I hope you were able to place the horse directly at the slaughter house. If so, I have no problem. However, the transport issues horrify me & all the ones I mentioned HAVE HAPPENED & ARE DOCUMENTED.

                          The New York State Police continually stop tractor trailer loads of horse bound for slaughter on I-81 north as they try to enforce the humane laws that exist. Unfortunately, there is so much money to be made that the same truckers are stopped & taken to court & found guilty & fined over & over again. & then they do it again.

                          Also, in this area a horse that is euthanized on a farm (if euthanized correctly & with planning) can then go to the local hunt to feed the dogs. In some cases the huntsmen will come & butcher up. Otherwise, a rendering plant will take the body. Thus, burial may not be an issue, unless you don't want the body to go to the dogs or the rendering plant.


                          • #33
                            Didn't want to touch this one but can't stop myself......

                            An animal being euthanized by the humane society or an animal shelter are done so in a pain free manner. An animal being sent to slaughter is an entirely different story from the moment they get on the "meat wagon" to the moment they walk into the rendering plant. My Vet always referred to me as "unrealistic in my thoughts." He felt I was being an idealist UNTIL he went to the Owen Sound, Ontario facility and watched the process. He now encourages all of his clients to euthanize at home BEFORE sending them off. In my humble opinion, the $500-700 you receive can't compensate for the utter agony they experience. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]
                            \"If you are going through hell, keep going.\" ~Churchill~


                            • #34
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                              I hope you were able to place the horse directly at the slaughter house. If so, I have no problem. However, the transport issues horrify me & all the ones I mentioned HAVE HAPPENED & ARE DOCUMENTED.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              I agree... i've seen so many horses that have suffered so much on the "long ride". I have no problem with horses being eaten. Wouldn't do it myself, but that's just cause those are the animals i love with all my heart.. I don't lay down in the straw with the chickens and cows, but I feel that the things these horses have to endure on the trailerdie, where they are packed like they are already slaughtered onto insufficient trailers, and despite some of them having injuries that would make you shiver, the drivers dont care.

                              I was at New Holland a few monthes ago, and I'm sorry, but that whole thing they passed that the horses can't have certain problems is bull. I saw a horse with an open eye socket, freely bleeding.

                              Just thought I'd give my two cents.



                              • #35
                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Posted by Spot:
                                I fail to understand why it is so wrong to recoup some of the money spent on this horse, when his ultimate end is going to be the same ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                Because in my opinion a horse going to slaughter is inhumane and cruel. I have met evil horses, horses that i jokingly said would put an Alpo sticker on myself...however, it had come down to it i couldn't BARE to send a horse to slaughter. I love them all too much, even the "rotten" ones (~disclaimer~ I'm not saying you DON'T love horses, i'm just stating my feelings) . The end results may be the same, but the roads to those results are the different as dying in your sleep and being beat to death.

                                I agree with Quinn:
                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> $500-700 you receive can't compensate for the utter agony they experience. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


                                --Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

                                [This message was edited by lisamarie8 on Nov. 27, 2001 at 04:26 PM.]
                                Life Goes On


                                • #36
                                  Hmm, this is interesting...

                                  As a vegetarian who has never dumped an animal at a shelter, I'm with Spot here. I understand that we all love horses, but I'm pretty sure that the same atrocities horses going to slaughter face are the same the cattle, sheep, pigs, what have you experience as well. Where does one draw the line, if at all? Who are we to say a horse's life is more valuable than a pig's?

                                  On the other topic, of breeding the mare, I recently bought an unspectacular, conformationally imperfect, plain jane chestnut APHA breeding stock mare because she has an amazing temperament. I have heard breed judges comment about mares that can't be ridden, have horrible temperaments, aren't sound, etc. etc., and so the owner figures "I'll just breed her". Someone reading this probably knows who originally said "Think of the mare as a copier, and the stallion as the "start" button." I think the key component to successful breeding programs is quality mares. Of course, this is jmho.


                                  • #37
                                    You got the jist of what I was saying and I stand by it to this day, having had a similar situation with a mare who i bought and wouldnt load. After HER fractured skull, cuts etc. i made the vow....know when to say when. you can not save every creature. Sometimes horses are in our lives for different reasons. Some people need to learn how to say no. Some need to learn how to be aggresssive, assertive, definitive, or learn how to get mad. Or some need to learn how to be patient, softer, more savvy, trickier.

                                    I probably would have done just what you did...but gosh after watching the rodeo finals on TV could you imagine what that horse would bring on the bucking circuit? They seek those kind out like gold! (Just musing....)


                                    • #38
                                      She said earlier he was so wild he was rejected [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] from the rodeo circut.

                                      Valerie's home page


                                      • #39
                                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quinn:
                                        An animal being euthanized by the humane society or an animal shelter are done so in a pain free manner. An animal being sent to slaughter is an entirely different story from the moment they get on the "meat wagon" to the moment they walk into the rendering plant. In my humble opinion, the $500-700 you receive can't compensate for the utter agony they experience. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        you might not have much sympathy for an animal that has severly harmed you, or others. for example, if someone's dog got out, and attacked your child, wouldn't your first thought be to have the dog dead no matter how? i dont know many people who would allow a nice death for an animal that has killed their child, or severely hurt them..

                                        a horse youve had for 30 years holds a different place in your mind and heart, whereas a horse who you TRIED to save but couldnt, goes for meat...

                                        whos to say he couldnt have exploded on the vet when he was going to insert the needle, or struck out at you as you were holding his lead... its factors like these that change decisions...

                                        just my personal take on the situation i guess =/ i dont mean to be so blunt


                                        • #40
                                          Not sure how this thread got to eating horse meat and slaugher houses, BUT since it did...

                                          The problem I have with the increased exportation of horse meat to Europe is that horse THEFT is on the rise in this country, partially due to this - and it's not just old, debilitated horses that are being taken. It's perfectly healthy, sound and happy horses being taken from someone who loves them very much. This, I definitely have a problem with. Not to mention, the totally inhumane road trip to the slaugher house. I had to put my lovely mare down 3 years ago due to a twisted colon (despite emergency surgery). It was absolutely the worst and most difficult and heart-wrenching thing I've ever done - but, there was no other choice in the matter. I had her cremated and brought her ashes home. A slaugher house would definitely not have even entered into our thought process.

                                          If you think this mare can be "saved," so to speak with some time away from the track (because she certainly could calm down and change quite a bit away from that environment), she may come around and be able to lead a productive and happy life. However, it will take a great deal of patience, and there are not any guarantees. The end result may still be the same. There are other options for her besides breeding, which I still would not recommend at this point. Best wishes.

                                          Hawk's Run Trakehners - home of the outstanding German Trakehner stallion, "Happy Hour"
                                          \"HAPPY HOUR\" & Hawk\'s Run Trakehners

                                          \"The only price of admission is curiosity.\"
                                          Proud Member of Team Barbaro!