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Where does the Alydar jump come from?

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  • Where does the Alydar jump come from?

    Just wondering what's in his pedigree that might indicate jumping ability?

    Thanks in advance

    http://www.pedigreequery.com/alydar

  • #2
    I'm not sure, but I see Bull Lea in older pedigrees of WBs.

    Comment


    • #3
      Most likely from his linebreeding: four lines to Teddy, two through Bull Dog. Native Dancer's dam, Geisha is Discovery/Display/Fair Play. Man O'War is also Fair Play. So that's at least two lines to him, and he was a jumping producer. Both Lady Comfrey and La Chica are Roi Herode lines.

      Damsire line is Nasrullah/Nearco. Well established for jumping. Mumtaz Begum is by Blenheim out of a granddaughter of Roi Herode. Ponder's dam is a daughter of Blenheim and granddam is by Sir Gallahad, a Teddy son. Blue Larkspur also is a source of the jump.
      "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
      Thread killer Extraordinaire

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Thank you Vineyridge and Dray.

        Vineyridge, you must have an encyclopedic mind. Your posts read like all of this information just rolls out quickly and easily.

        Would I be out of my mind to even consider linebreeding Alydar and Terlingua three generations back, top and bottom? My husband, a biologist, says yes, but he tends to think I'm out there anyway

        Comment


        • #5
          Nasrullah -On and On...

          Kin to David Broom's PHILCO, multiple time European Champion, Aachen Gran Prix, etc.
          Kin to Naticoke... Etc.

          Comment


          • #6
            Here is what Dr. Birdsall has on On-And-On and his descendants.

            Two hunters--Bally Connell and Ever So.
            Two International level jumper sons--Coach Stop and Philco. Both Philco and Alydar were linebred on Two Lea through daughters. Philco is the reverse of the Alydar, with his Native Dancer line as damsire tail male.

            On-And-On was the full brother of Pied D'Or, sire of Barnabas and grandsire, tail male, of Garham Girl, both USET jumpers.

            Coach Stop set a new track record at Belmont for a two mile race.

            Nasrullah has so many listed under him, they are almost uncountable.
            "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
            Thread killer Extraordinaire

            Comment


            • #7
              And I just thought I would put this out there...when you look at a picture of Alydar - do you not see an athletic well conformed horse? I know the lines are important, but he sure has the 'look' of an athlete

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Is Dr. Birdsall's book a good place to start learning pedigree? Is there a basic primer on tb pedigree available? Hmmmm, time for me to head over to Amazon.

                Goodmorning: Yes, I agree Alydar is a well made athlete. I'm of the mind that poor conformation shouldn't be bred. I'm just learning about pedigree and therefore have no set opinion on how best to use it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  He sired athletes

                  While I understand that fast runners aren't necessarily the best jumpers, Alydar did sire a very high percentage of top performers. His get tended to be pretty sound, and they ran long. Point is, I would think that part of the perceived ability from this line may be attributable to sheer athletic ability, and to some degree, soundness.
                  Don't wrassle with a hog. You just get dirty, and the hog likes it.

                  Collecting Thoroughbreds - tales of a re-rider and some TBs

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Dr. Birdsall is one of the few experts out there on TB pedigrees for sport horses. He took ASHA and international jumping results for NA bred winners in hunters, jumpers, some eventers, and steeplechasers and then researched the pedigrees and published them in his works. I have the 1981 three volume set of Bloodlines of Hunters & Jumpers in North America. He also has a compendium and an 1997 update to the compendium, and all are available for purchase directly from him.

                    The Sport Horse Breeder website has several articles by him.
                    http://www.sporthorse-breeder.com/articles.htm

                    There is also a .pdf article from 2004 on sport horse bloodlines by him that is available here.
                    www.grotonmanor.com/winners2004/2004jumpers.pdf

                    Here is a link to his publications available from him.
                    http://home.mountaincable.net/~birdsallp/pub.htm

                    He pretty much ignores mare lines.
                    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                    Thread killer Extraordinaire

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                      He pretty much ignores mare lines.
                      And I've been wondering why people don't focus on mare lines when breeding. My current fantasy is line breeding for Terlingua but it's only a fantasy at this point since I know so little about line breeding.

                      Thank you for the reading suggestions

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Alydar had several sons that still are or were recently on the USEF leading sires list.

                        VERGE
                        ALYDARMER
                        ALY DARK
                        ALYBRAVE
                        ALYRAT
                        OPPOSITE ABSTRACT

                        The above stallions represent 5 female families.

                        I haven't checked to see if these stallions had good race careers or had race breeding careers.
                        Fan of Sea Accounts

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Verge, Alydarmer, and Alydar all come from branches of Family 9, so would have the same mtDNA. The 9-c involved is the American one from Washoe Belle, not the Lady Josephine/Palotta branch that mtDNA analysis shows actually comes from another family entirely.

                          For an absolutely lovely example of modern day linebreeding take a look at Aly Rat's pedigree. If you go one generation back through his dam, the VERY, VERY great race mare, Davona Dale, it's even more striking.
                          "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                          Thread killer Extraordinaire

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I would think having the Blue Larkspur for possible LHX in the direct Tail Female line would be added bonus too!
                            http://www.selahwaysporthorses.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Could also be the influence of Ben Brush in the pedigree! Many of the by-gone Silver Stirrup Award Winning Sires seem to have him in their pedigrees as well....
                              "None of us can move forward if half of us are being held back." ~Anonymous~

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by PineTreeFarm View Post
                                Alydar had several sons that still are or were recently on the USEF leading sires list.

                                VERGE
                                ALYDARMER
                                ALY DARK
                                ALYBRAVE
                                ALYRAT
                                OPPOSITE ABSTRACT

                                The above stallions represent 5 female families.

                                I haven't checked to see if these stallions had good race careers or had race breeding careers.
                                Also Easy Goer
                                Providence Farm
                                http://providencefarmpintos.blogspot.com/

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by PineTreeFarm View Post
                                  Alydar had several sons that still are or were recently on the USEF leading sires list.

                                  OPPOSITE ABSTRACT

                                  The above stallions represent 5 female families.

                                  I haven't checked to see if these stallions had good race careers or had race breeding careers.
                                  This is my guy's sire.
                                  Animals are not disposable!!!
                                  http://www.pawsnela.org

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    without going way back.....in the first 3 generations: Nasrullah and Raise A Native are both established jump producers.
                                    Providence Farm
                                    http://providencefarmpintos.blogspot.com/

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      my amateur horse was by alydar (never raced) and was extremely scopy! We had free jumped him 5 foot with no problem when he was younger. I was told that his mother was an extremely well bred mare though (I think her name was best bet if I'm remembering right) so maybe it came from her.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Was the the 1969 Best Bet? If so she has Nearco only 3 generations back and Solario, also three generations back. Even I know that's pretty fantastic!

                                        Comment

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