• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Selle Francais Association?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Selle Francais Association?

    So I am interested in breeding my TB mare to a Selle Francais. I went to look up the associating to see inspection dates and more information, but when I did, I saw that the North American Selle Francais Association, Inc. is no longer established. So, as a rookie, I have no idea where to look for more registration information.

    Could someone please lead me in the right direction?

    Thanks!
    In loving memory of my Hidden Moment 1991-2009

  • #2
    Maybe you should register your AMERICAN bred horse as American instead of with an association that is in another part of the world and doesn't have any bearing on what you are breeding here in the U.S.

    In other words, would someone in France with a selle francias mare breeding her to an American TB stallion, then register that foal with an American registry? No. They are in France and would register the foal with their home based registry. So why do you think you should take an American TB mare, living in the U.S., bred to a French stallion and then register the foal in France?

    Comment


    • #3
      Les Haras Nationaux

      I work at a Selle Francais breeding facility in Florida, and we are doing all registrations through the French registry, Les Haras Nationaux. I have not heard of any inspections since the fall 2007 tour. I don't think they are out of the question, just prohibitively expensive as the inspector would have to come from France. I'm sure there are a few NASFA board members out there in COTH land that can answer this better than me. However, there is a contact in France, and since all this info is available on their website, I don't think they will mind me posting it in this thread. His name is Patrick Clarin, patrick.clerin@haras-nationaux.fr. Try emailing him, he is generally quite helpful.
      The knowledge of the nature of a horse is one of the first foundations of the art if riding it, and every horseman must make it his principal study.
      ~Francois Robichon de la Gueriniere

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by tri View Post
        Maybe you should register your AMERICAN bred horse as American instead of with an association that is in another part of the world and doesn't have any bearing on what you are breeding here in the U.S.

        In other words, would someone in France with a selle francias mare breeding her to an American TB stallion, then register that foal with an American registry? No. They are in France and would register the foal with their home based registry. So why do you think you should take an American TB mare, living in the U.S., bred to a French stallion and then register the foal in France?
        First Off, Im sorry if you had a bad day, But I was NOT saying I was going to register the foal in FRANCE. I had asked for a little direction on where to go since the NORTH AMERICAN association was not longer established. I am not looking to register the foal in another country.

        Next time, you could be a bit nicer, or not comment at all. Hope you day gets better.
        In loving memory of my Hidden Moment 1991-2009

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by Kaelurus View Post
          I work at a Selle Francais breeding facility in Florida, and we are doing all registrations through the French registry, Les Haras Nationaux. I have not heard of any inspections since the fall 2007 tour. I don't think they are out of the question, just prohibitively expensive as the inspector would have to come from France. I'm sure there are a few NASFA board members out there in COTH land that can answer this better than me. However, there is a contact in France, and since all this info is available on their website, I don't think they will mind me posting it in this thread. His name is Patrick Clarin, patrick.clerin@haras-nationaux.fr. Try emailing him, he is generally quite helpful.

          I read a bit more about it, I think I am going to go through the BWP North America reg. since the stallion is approved through them as well.

          Thank you!
          In loving memory of my Hidden Moment 1991-2009

          Comment


          • #6
            But I was NOT saying I was going to register the foal in FRANCE
            Uhmm, that is exactly what you would be doing if you register the horse with the Selle Francias organization. And even, if the NORTH AMERICAN ASSOCIATION was still in business, which it is not, YOU WOULD STILL BE REGISTERING THE HORSE IN FRANCE. That is who issues the papers, that is where the papers come from. That is where the studbook is and that is who controls it. Your horse would be considered a FRENCH HORSE and if the horse competed in any FEI events, the points your horse would earn would be credited to the Selle Francias studbook IN FRANCE. Any WBFSH rankings you horse should happen to acheive would be listed under the Selle Francias studbook IN FRANCE.

            So, no bad day here, but sorry if you don't like being told the truth.

            Oh, and BTW, if you register the horse with the BWP, all of the above will apply only with the Belgian registry IN BELGIUM regardless of the NORTH AMERICAN Association of the BWP. The registry IS IN BELGIUM AND YOU ARE REGISTERING YOUR HORSE IN BELGIUM.

            Sorry to burst your bubble.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tri View Post
              Uhmm, that is exactly what you would be doing if you register the horse with the Selle Francias organization. And even, if the NORTH AMERICAN ASSOCIATION was still in business, which it is not, YOU WOULD STILL BE REGISTERING THE HORSE IN FRANCE. That is who issues the papers, that is where the papers come from. That is where the studbook is and that is who controls it. Your horse would be considered a FRENCH HORSE and if the horse competed in any FEI events, the points your horse would earn would be credited to the Selle Francias studbook IN FRANCE. Any WBFSH rankings you horse should happen to acheive would be listed under the Selle Francias studbook IN FRANCE.

              So, no bad day here, but sorry if you don't like being told the truth.

              Oh, and BTW, if you register the horse with the BWP, all of the above will apply only with the Belgian registry IN BELGIUM regardless of the NORTH AMERICAN Association of the BWP. The registry IS IN BELGIUM AND YOU ARE REGISTERING YOUR HORSE IN BELGIUM.

              Sorry to burst your bubble.


              Wow, maybe you need to take a little bit of time to cool down.


              I purchased a colt in 2006 (he is now a gelding), that was by an approved Selle Francais stallion (he is only approved SF, was never presented for anything else), and out of a Thoroughbred mare.

              During the 2007 tour, his dam was accepted into the Selle Francais registry, with good scores (will have to find the copy I have of her scoresheet to get the exact numbers). At that time my colt (still intact at that time) was also inspected, then rather liked him. Anyways, that is beside the point.

              I heard in early 2008 about the closure of NASFA, and was... irritated... to say the least. I had gotten my colts papers from France, and noticed there was a mistake on them, I contacted NASFA about it, and the individual I talked to said that they had noticed the mistake, but due to the North American office being closed, they didn't bother to send it back. I was never really happy with the customer service when NASFA did exist, and have been much happier dealing directly with France.


              So, Tri, tell me please, what is the problem? Are you saying that the Selle Francais and BWP horses should not exist in the United States? Are you saying that their breeding should not be encouraged? If so, then that is sad. Personally, I see no problem with going directly through France.
              Making Your Ambitions a Reality at Secret Ambition Stables.
              Quality Welsh Ponies and Welsh Crosses bred for sport
              Facebook Page.
              Section A and Section B Welsh Ponies at stud

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                I really cant wait for the stallion owner, who is also a COTH member, to see this.

                Or for that matter, Anyone who owns a warmblood with a TB dam.
                In loving memory of my Hidden Moment 1991-2009

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by tri View Post
                  Maybe you should register your AMERICAN bred horse as American instead of with an association that is in another part of the world and doesn't have any bearing on what you are breeding here in the U.S.

                  In other words, would someone in France with a selle francias mare breeding her to an American TB stallion, then register that foal with an American registry? No. They are in France and would register the foal with their home based registry. So why do you think you should take an American TB mare, living in the U.S., bred to a French stallion and then register the foal in France?
                  Wow, someone needs to take a step back. Why do you care so much what she chooses to register her horse as? If the breed association accepts her horse, what does it matter to you?

                  Are you trying to say that my SF, who is by a SF approved stallion, out of a SF mare, shouldn't be registered as such simply because he was bred and born in the US? Or are you trying to say that because it's part TB it doesn't deserve to be registered with whatever association the OP chooses and everything that has TB in it should automatically be banned from foreign associations? Either way, I think you are completely out of line.
                  A lovely horse is always an experience.... It is an emotional experience of the kind that is spoiled by words. ~Beryl Markham

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JumperForJoy View Post
                    I read a bit more about it, I think I am going to go through the BWP North America reg. since the stallion is approved through them as well.
                    Probably the best way to go in this case unless your mare is already approved for SF breeding. I am making an assumption that your mare is not already approved for either SF or Belgium breeding.

                    But, if your mare would already be approved for SF breeding it should not be a problem to get SF papers from France. As poster, Kaelurus, stated you could contact Patrick Clerin in France. He has always been helpful to me and responsive to my email questions. But if she is not already approved for SF breeding it might be difficult to get "stud book" papers as I also am unaware of any SF inspections planned here in the US.

                    It would be much easier to get your mare approved with the BWP North America and get "stud book" papers. Probably your best option. The BWP incorporated the SF approved stallions into their registry when the NA SF registry closed.
                    Richard, Approved Black KWPN Stallion
                    Website
                    and Facebook page
                    Oh Kaptain Underpants SFS, Approved BRp pony stallion
                    Website and Facebook page

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Tri's point, and in a lot of ways I agree with her, is that American breeders will never be recognized or competitive with European breeders if the competition points their foals accrue are credited to European registries. If I want a world class jumper, and KWPN claims to be the Number One Registry worldwide for jumpers, I'll look very hard at KWPN horses in HOLLAND, in part because all of the KWPN-NA points are given to Holland, which moves them up in the world rankings (This is assuming that American bred KWPNs actually get points).

                      If registries are registries and not breeds, why should North Americans register American bred horses with regional European registries--that, by law in their own countries, have to give some sort of registration to all horses that are presented to them?
                      "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                      Thread killer Extraordinaire

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        [QUOTE=sfstable;3880122]Probably the best way to go in this case unless your mare is already approved for SF breeding. I am making an assumption that your mare is not already approved for either SF or Belgium breeding.[QUOTE]

                        Yes, she is not. I think going through the Belgium reg. to save time and money. Either way, it’s still the same stud.

                        If someone hears of a SF inspection this year in the states, please let me know. I will email Patrick Clerin and ask him if any are scheduled as of yet.

                        Thanks for the input!
                        In loving memory of my Hidden Moment 1991-2009

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Are you trying to say that my SF, who is by a SF approved stallion, out of a SF mare, shouldn't be registered as such simply because he was bred and born in the US?
                          Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. And Vineyridge, thank you!

                          Warmbloods are named for their region. 5 full siblings born in 5 different countries would be registered in their own country's studbook, so 5 full siblings could be Oldenburg, KWPN, BWP, Rhinelander, Hanoverian or whatever.

                          So, NO. It doesn't make sense to breed wbs in the U.S. and then register them to a foreign country, marketing your foal as a foreign sporthorse product and increasing any points accrued in competition for that foreign studbook.

                          Americans breeding sporthorses in the U.S. neet to unite together to create the sporthorse industry here in the U.S. and push their sporthorse product forward as a viable, competitve product, earning any int'l points as AMERICAN.

                          I am a proponent of building the sporthorse industry HERE instead of literally PAYING for a foreign country to come in and take it away.

                          But, to the OP, you obviously didn't even realize that you were registering your horse in France, or Belgium with the course of action you are considering. But that is what you are doing.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Only half kidding but this is what some breeders sound like:

                            Breeders want everybody to support NA breeders
                            but you register your horses with EU registries
                            Breeders want to be in a EU registry
                            but complain that there is no US WB identity for marketing
                            but don't like it when the end user insists on a EU horse cause
                            that's what's winning.
                            Fan of Sea Accounts

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I've said that for a long time and I"m not kidding in the least.

                              Yeah, go ahead and send all the money out of the country and then whine whine whine when the buyer also wants to go out of the country, and there isn't any money left here to fund U.S. breeder & young horse programs.... that is if the EU registries were interested in spending the money they collect from U.S. breeders actually IN THE U.S. which they aren't. But they have fabulous programs over there!!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Tri - you're the one that's whining endlessly! You're upset that your AWS or AWR horses aren't getting recognition and so you try to lay the blame on the European registries. And then when you run out of argument you drag up the old Dutch mare you used to own - sure, that makes you an expert in all things concerning Euro warmbloods!

                                You're trying to get folks incited by making completely unfounded statements like all monies collected by the Euro registries here going to Europe. Let me assure anybody who is actually reading this stuff that this is not the case with the KWPN-NA, nor the AHS, nor plenty of other registries. But, of course, when tri spouts this stuff it has to be true? Well, no, it doesn't and it isn't!

                                So why don't you look for a good marketing strategy for your AWR or AWS stuff and leave us Europhiles alone? We don't need you nor your "advice"/rantings.

                                Happy Valentine's Day!
                                Siegi Belz
                                www.stalleuropa.com
                                2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
                                Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  And hear the broom whoosh with the echos of cackling retreating into the night.

                                  Dearie, I have more than one KWPN registered, branded and approved mare...so don't try to post on open forums that all my horses are dead again - didn't they threaten to ban you last time you tried that or did they just ban you outright? Not sure as I haven't missed you.

                                  But I never said that ALL the monies collected go to europe - just a good bit of it with the registries that are foreign owned such as the BWP & the Selle Francias. But you just couldn't resist applying that to the KWPN and the AHS neither of which were brought up in this thread. Methinks you doth protest too much!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    You're absolutely right, tri.... I didn't expect a coherent response from you. :-)
                                    Siegi Belz
                                    www.stalleuropa.com
                                    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
                                    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Actually, I did bring up the KWPN. I thought, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the KWPN-NA was in the process of being absorbed by the KWPN--and that Judgement's International points were credited to the Dutch book, not to the KWPN-NA.
                                      "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                      Thread killer Extraordinaire

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Registry is a tracking option based on expert opinions of bloodlines, and........ a lot of behind the curtain politics.
                                        What counts is what happens in the rings, end of story.
                                        Breed the bloodlines that you beleive in and that are proven to get the job done and get the papers for the registry that make your life the easiest.
                                        End of my rant......
                                        www.spindletopfarm.net
                                        Home of Puerto D'Azur - 1998 NA 100 Day Test Champion
                                        "Charcter is much easier kept than recovered"

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X