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Grand Prix Dressage stallions who produce QUIET Grand Prix Quality foals

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  • Grand Prix Dressage stallions who produce QUIET Grand Prix Quality foals

    I have a client with a VERY hot Jazz daughter.. They are looking to produce a Grand Prix dressage prospect, but want to make very sure that the stallion is not a "HOT" producer..
    The mare is EXTREMELY athletic, and has fantastic movement, but tends to be a bit of a brat (unpredictable u/s).
    Of course if the foal came out exactly like her we would still be happy, but we want the best chance of it being a bit easier to work with. She is not in any way a "mean" mare, nor does she literally try to kill you... She is just a bit more of a flight type horse u/s.
    She has excellent conformation with no flaws to speak of. Great drive from behind, and a great neck shaped neck.

    Any ideas?

    They were specifically looking at Sir Sinclair, but we wanted to see what other options there are out there..
    Stephanie Smith

  • #2
    in 2007, Welcome S at Rolling Stone Farm produced a colt that at inspection was deemed to have FEI quality gaits. He is a very sweet colt. A trainer who saw Welcome S showing when he was in europe said he was the most willing to please stallion she had ever seen.
    I have a 2008 filly that was so quiet the vet thought she was brain damaged. You can do anything with her.
    My BO who has been breeding forever is constantly remarking on how intelligent my filly is (and I agree), so I guess she wasn't brain damaged after all.
    He throws fabulous angles and movement.
    "The mighty oak is a nut who stood its ground"

    "...you'll never win Olympic gold by shaking a carrot stick at a warmblood..." see u at x


    • #3
      The stallion has to be a Grand Prix competitor?
      Siegi Belz
      2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
      Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.


      • #4
        If frozen is ok, what about Florestan?

        I dont think Florestan himself competed to GP, but he sure has proven he can produce GP horses.

        For competing stallions, Rascalino (also frozen) is competing in the FEI levels (not GP yet) and he consistently throws quiet, confident foals. The temperament of Rascalino foals is amazing.

        For US based stallions that are competing GP, how about Don Principe? He just debuted at GP (at the age of 9?) and did it in winning fashion.
        Home of EM Day Dream, SPS Pakesa, & SPS Destiny
        Breeders of USDF HOY Reminisce HM and USDF Reserve HOY Legacy HM


        • #5
          What is the mare's damline?

          R-line tends to be very rideable. Rubino Bellissimo (Rubinstein I/ Bergkristall) was successful at Prix St.George, maybe ever Grand Prix?

          I've hear Royal Prince throws nice temperaments, and I've definately been impressed by his foals, he's a beautiful boy.

          If your interested in going with Dutch, Rousseau has been said to throw very rideable offspring, and he certaintly is producing movers! With the Ferro/Roemer lines, his pedigree is very proven in Grand Prix Dressage.

          Though I don't believe Rousseau and Royal Prince are doing GP yet.
          Making Your Ambitions a Reality at Secret Ambition Stables.
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          • #6
            Waldaire fulfills all your criteria. Ask Tasker on this board.
            "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist


            • Original Poster

              Jazz/Samber The filly is half sibling to Semper (same dam).

              They are looking for GP quality, so if the stallion is on the way, or is producing it that should be fine.

              They want KWPN or OLD NA, and if the stallion is approved with BOTH then that is even better.

              They do not want to breed down (quality) this filly in any way, she is outstanding! Just want to produce a foal that is more trusting/easier to work with/handle!
              Stephanie Smith


              • #8
                My Bugatti mare has the best temperament and is a fantastic mover - out of a TB mare
                ( gasp!)

                Can't say enough about her work ethic as well


                • #9


                  • #10


                    • #11
                      Jazz has been breeding long enough that his niches are fairly obvious. As far as KWPN stallions, Contango, Krack C, and Ulft lines seem to be the best. Our top mare, Orchis (Jazz x Roemer) is a hot, flighty mare on the ground--much better focused and really talented under saddle. We've bred her twice to both Freestyle and Donatelli, and have had a colt and filly from each cross. The Donatelli colt has been the most straight-forward and reasonable in his temperament; both Freestyles hot, but much more sensible than their mother; the Donatelli filly is hotter than her dam... The Freestyle colt was selected as a stallion prospect by the KWPN-NA, but didn't grow enough--though he did pass the performance portion of the grading; the Freestyle mare is keur eligible and now schooling third level with the potential to go all the way; the Donatelli colt was a very high scoring foal, but is too young to have done anything undersaddle, as is the Donatelli filly. This year, the mare is due with a Serano Gold foal, and I'm about to send in the paperwork for her breeding to Rousseau for 2009. Basically, I've gone into this much detail because I think the Jazz temperament can come through regardless to which stallion you breed her. You couldn't ask for stallions with better temperaments for dressage than Donatelli and Freestyle, yet the Jazz influence remains strong in two out of the three and really strong in one out of the four. (Does this sound like a Pundit square--do I have the term correct?)

                      Speaking purely from a pedigree standpoint, I'd be careful breeding about doubling up on the Pericles xx (Samber's sire); he is known for producing a slight over bite and sometimes hocks that are too light in bone. Out of curiosity, does your mare's hind leg construction take after the sickle hocks of Jazz or the sometimes really straight hind leg of the Sambers? That may also be a consideration in your stallion selection.

                      Sir Sinclair may not be a bad choice. He's a really consistent producer and certainly seems to produce good temperaments, but he's a little long in the hind leg--and I'd like to see him and his offspring "sit" a little more behind. With a Jazz x Samber mare, this shouldn't be an issue, however.

                      Hope I haven't gone on too much--I'm a Jazz fan, so wanted to share some thoughts.


                      • #12
                        I would check out Olivier (Idocus x Rowillie). http://www.imajica.net/olivierresults.html


                        • #13
                          what about Farewell III? Judy Yancey recommended him to me for a similar type mare.
                          There is a reason that the windshield is larger than the rear view mirror!


                          • #14
                            Really, Ulft and Jazz? I'd breed my Ulft mare to Jazz in a heartbeat if I thought the foal would be along the lines of what the poster is hoping to get temperament wise! My Ulft mare is very sensitive...the term "princess" comes to mind. I would really consider Contango to meet your criteria: this is an established "nick" and Contango gives really good minds with incredible work ethics. Of course, this means frozen and EVA protocol, but this is a proven cross. There are also a few Jazz/Flemmingh crosses out there in approved stallions, though both of my suggestions are obviously via frozen if you are in the U.S. I'd have to see the mare or a photo to really zero in on the right cross for her, though. I can tell you that Sir Sinclair offers a very good temperament and willingness to please, but you already know that. We need photos!
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                            • #15
                              I don't know about the Jazz x Ulft temperament, but it is a solid niche. The champion dressage mare of the Horse Days is a Jazz x Ulft--look at Parzival--he's won three World Cup qualifiers in a row. He's Jazz x Ulft. If you go to www.melissen.net, you can type the Jazz x Ulft pedigree into the equine search and see tons of them.


                              • #16
                                Waldaire. He has competed to GP and I can vouch for the quiet part as Tasker let me ride him for lessons a couple years back when my riding horse died and their lesson horse was having some health issues (arthritis) in the winter cold....and I am no GP rider! Tasker just retired him this year at 20...and not because of soundness...so she has time to show the younger horses more. I also have 2 Wally fillies. Both are out of TB mares. One is super quiet. The other is not as quiet but every horse has a mother and the less quiet one does have the hot momma. That said the "hotter" filly is freakishy intelligent and super bold. She might be "not quiet" in a sensitive and forward sort of way but there is NO spook in her either. She is forward in a TB sort of way, not in the Jazz "unpredictable" sort of way. I have had occasion to see pots of Wally fillies since I take lessons at "his" farm and on the whole they are a pretty unflappable bunch. Having ridden Wally I can comment on this: he is 17H but he has a super soft canter and "rides like a smaller horse". ..in other words is maneuverable for such a big guy. Another plus is that both my mares are old. They both took on one insemination and the semen quality was up for Olympic Swimmer status!
                                Inspection pics of the first/quiet filly. I don't have the inspection pics yet for the second filly. This one got a 7.7 at inspection; Wally is approved for breeding with AWR, Old/ISR and Old/GOV.
                                Last edited by camohn; Jan. 6, 2009, 07:59 AM.
                                Providence Farm


                                • #17
                                  Don Principe- made his GP debut at age nine with scores in the mid to high 60s. His offspring are too young, oldest are 4 this year, but temperment is the absolute best! Alert, friendly, intelligent and work ethic to die for.
                                  Trainers and international clinicians have said that his foals are certainly FEI quality.

                                  Maryanna Haymon
                                  2007 USEF Breeder of the Year!
                                  Maryanna Haymon- Marydell Farm - Home to Don Principe & Doctor Wendell MF
                                  2012 USDF Champion Breeder! 2007, 2011 USEF Champ Breeder
                                  2009,2010,2011 USDF Res Breeder of the Year!


                                  • #18
                                    Well, I've bred my Jazz mare to OO Seven twice... The first time I had a colt that was 3rd in the country as a foal, USDF Horse of the Year as a 3-year old, and Champion 4-year old FEI Young Horse.

                                    This Jazz mare had another OO Seven colt in 2008..... He finished 3rd in the country as a foal, so far... :-) I actually think he's better than his big brother.

                                    Both colts have very good temperaments.
                                    Siegi Belz
                                    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
                                    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.


                                    • #19
                                      I second the "R" line, as they are fairly consistant in being good-minded and producing the same. I have a Rubino Bellisimo mare I bred and she is a total doll. Easiest thing in the world to start u/s.

                                      Rubino himself competed all the way to GP and did well. I think he was only 10 or something.

                                      Don't know if they would "fit" your mare in terms of conformation, but they DO tend to throw the brains.


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Sundown Farm View Post
                                        I have a client with a VERY hot Jazz daughter.. They are looking to produce a Grand Prix dressage prospect, but want to make very sure that the stallion is not a "HOT" producer..
                                        The mare is EXTREMELY athletic, and has fantastic movement, but tends to be a bit of a brat (unpredictable u/s).
                                        Of course if the foal came out exactly like her we would still be happy, but we want the best chance of it being a bit easier to work with. She is not in any way a "mean" mare, nor does she literally try to kill you... She is just a bit more of a flight type horse u/s.
                                        She has excellent conformation with no flaws to speak of. Great drive from behind, and a great neck shaped neck.

                                        Any ideas?

                                        They were specifically looking at Sir Sinclair, but we wanted to see what other options there are out there..

                                        F lines - Furisio II, Florestan..etc.. have great temperaments and ridability.