• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

Using a Trakehner mare in other stud book

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Using a Trakehner mare in other stud book

    I am having a debate in my head about wether to present two of our Trakehner mares for Hanoverian approval. I do use a few Hanoverian stallions in my breeding program on my coloured mares, and I know personally how much I like to see Trakehner influence in the stallions pedigrees.
    I have one wonderful mare (HG Solomon x Consul) that I think would cross wonderfully onto Weltmeyer, and I am so tempted to present her for grading to try that cross the once. But I also always think there are so few Trakehners out there, that it is almost a waste to use her for a different stud book.

    At the same time I am about to start backing a fabulous Axis filly for my boss that will be presented for her Trakehner grading next September. My boss doesn't yet breed Trakehners (I am working on her!) but I also wonder if it might not be worth presenting her for Hanoverian grading at the same time, just to keep lots of options open for her.

    Any opinions?
    www.volatis.co.uk - breeders of quality and colour

  • #2
    I understand where you are coming from and I know that other breeds like/want to use "our" mares (and stallions) to "improve" on their breeds etc, but as a Trakehner breeder I HATE it when a good mare goes to the other breed.

    I recently heard from someone who has a gelding who was registered by the former owner as Oldenburg. The sire is 100% approved TK, the mare is 100% approved TK so WHY?????!!!!!! Granted that is a gelding, but it happens all the time with mares and stallions also.

    That all being said - I do agree with keeping breeding options open, and I do understand the desire to cross the mare onto another stallion that you feel will compliment her and ultimately it is the owner of the horse that makes the decission, it just "hurts" me as a breeder to "loose" another horse with good/great bloodlines to another breed. :-)
    Emerald Acres standing the ATA, Trakehner Verband, sBs, RPSI, and ISR/OLD NA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      That's my feelinsg too, although I must confess I do sometimes use my lovely Trakehner mares to breed coloured part breds, as I love the Trakehner influence but also want the colour. So for example from 1 lovely old foundation mare I have her part bred filly, her part bred granddaughter and her pure bred granddaughter. I sort of justify it in my head that as long as every other breeding is back to a Trakehner stallion I am not being too naughty!

      One of the best 3yo fillies in the UK this year was out of a super Consul daughter by a Hanoverian sire, and I remember thinking how fabulous that the Trakehner influence was producing such a nice filly, but then sad that she wasn't a pure bred
      www.volatis.co.uk - breeders of quality and colour

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sacha View Post
        One of the best 3yo fillies in the UK this year was out of a super Consul daughter by a Hanoverian sire, and I remember thinking how fabulous that the Trakehner influence was producing such a nice filly, but then sad that she wasn't a pure bred
        And just think if the Consul daughter had been bred to the right TK stallion how super the purebred offspring would have been?! I do think that we have good/great TK stallions... But like I said, I know that the other breeds love our influence so I "get it" I just don't like it.
        Emerald Acres standing the ATA, Trakehner Verband, sBs, RPSI, and ISR/OLD NA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!

        Comment


        • #5
          In the US, is it any harder to get a Trak mare approved Hano than say, an Oldenburg mare?

          Caitlin
          Caitlin
          *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
          http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

          Comment


          • #6
            For so long in the US, Trakehners were the hardest to "market" for a variety of reasons. People thought they were hot and crazy, blah blah blah. Plus the registry for Trakehners in the US was not the friendliest or most pleasant to deal with. Which is pretty much why we ended up with the RPSI. When we do breed a 100% Trakehner it is registered Zweibrucken. Most studbooks, and especically RPSI appreciate Trakehner horses. They also appreciate the breeders.
            Patty
            www.rivervalefarm.com
            Follow us on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/River...ref=ts&fref=ts

            Comment


            • #7
              Sometimes Trakehner mares are on the small side so if registeries have a height requirement, their smaller stature could be a problem. I ran into that with the AHS. Then again, registeries have dropped the requirement or waived them.

              Trakehner bloodlines are very desirable in sporthorse pedigrees and I find a Trakehner line in many, many pedigrees of Dutch, Hanoverian and Oldenburg horses.

              Absatz is one of those lines. I have a D-line GOV filly with 4 crosses to that line.
              www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Re the OP's point on breeding a Trakehner outside the Trakehner registry ... I did that with an imported mare twice. After the second foal, I was going to breed her to a Trakhner to continue her bloodlines, but her cervix tore with that last foal so she is no longer breeding sound.

                She only produced boys in the USA but there is a daughter in Canada. She was born before I bought Lucy so I don't know how that daughter is registered, presumeably a Canadian Trakehner.
                www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have bred my Trakehner mares out of registry since I had them....to Danish and Russian stallions. This year, I'm breeding to Trakehners only and from here forward. I was an idiot not to produce purebreds along the way. My mares are 17.1 and were imported from Russian. they have some pretty rare lines and I adore them.

                  I agree with Annissia on this one. It just took me a while to get here.

                  Donna Ray

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have a lovely, big trakehner mare by Tropez/Flugwind. I bought her last year and I was also on the fence about whether to go straight TK or not. I ended up picking the stallion I thought was best for her, regardless of breed and it was a non trakehner so she is BWP approved. I would consider breeding her to a nice trakehner stallion in the future though.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It is good to keep your options open for studbooks so you can pick the best stallion to fit your mare. I would present them to the Hanoverians if you have that opportunity. Worth a try. Also, the KWPN does not require inpsections from main mare book Trakehner or other approved European warmblood studbooks. So you can breed to an approved KWPN stallion and get foal book KWPN Dutch Warmblood papers without presenting the mare or the foal. It is a nice open system.

                      Kathy
                      www.majesticgaits.com
                      Majestic Gaits-Dutch Warmbloods,#1 USEF Dressage Sporthorse Breeder. #1 KWPN-NA Jumpers.Standing Navarone,Schroeder,Dante MG.VDL Frozen.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        So for the AHS, are there any pedigree requirements for Trak mares? Are the ones that have a lot of TB or Arab eligible for the AHS MMB as long as they inspect well?

                        Caitlin
                        Caitlin
                        *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
                        http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Go for it! You can always breed her to a trak stallion for her next foal.
                          Horse Show Names Free name website with over 6200 names. Want to add? PM me!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NoDQhere View Post
                            For so long in the US, Trakehners were the hardest to "market" for a variety of reasons. People thought they were hot and crazy, blah blah blah. Plus the registry for Trakehners in the US was not the friendliest or most pleasant to deal with. Which is pretty much why we ended up with the RPSI. When we do breed a 100% Trakehner it is registered Zweibrucken. Most studbooks, and especically RPSI appreciate Trakehner horses. They also appreciate the breeders.
                            Have you had dealings with the American Trakehner Association lately? I've only been active with them for a couple of years but I've been rather impressed with them and for that reason have dove right in. They solicit feedback and are certainly committed to improving the breed and the registry. They are smaller than some of the other registries and being a non-profit organization relying on volunteers it can take awhile to make all the changes that are identified as necessary for organizational improvement and growth. Nonetheless, the ATA seems to be doing quite well from what I have seen and I expect it to only continue getting better.
                            Altamont Sport Horses
                            Trakehners * Knabstruppers * Appaloosa Sport Horses
                            Home of stallions: Ambrosius af Asgard "Atlantis" & Hollywood Hot Spot
                            Birmingham, AL

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I just bought a mare who, while Trak registered, is Oldenburg approved, too. She has a couple of documentation issues (springing from the JC a generation back) that I think might be the reason she went Oldenburg instead of ATA for inspections, but those aren't insurmountable, and I intend to pursue it. I can be pretty persistent when I want to be.

                              However, even though I'm planning to ride her mostly, when I breed her, I will always look to Traks and take serious persuasion to go anywhere else, even Oldenburg which is already built in as an option with her approval there. I love the Trakehners so much, and honestly, one of the things I love about them is that they are a breed, not a registry. Being more closed and more picky to me are not bad things.

                              I've had nothing but good experiences with the ATA, but I haven't known them many years.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I think that with the KWPN NA, Trakehner mares by stallions approved in Europe are considered Main Mare Book mares. If the stallions were approved in the USA with the eventing requirements, they would not be automatically approved. At least this is the way it was, and it would be wise to call the office and doublecheck before proceding.

                                Some of the NA-based registeries have reciprocal agreements with their European counterparts.
                                www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I forgot that the OP is based in England so our rules here in the USA are moot.
                                  www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Personally I see nothing wrong with doing this. Of course it's always nice to see a nice Trakehner mare go to a full/approved Trakehner stallion. But if there is a stallion with another registry that I feel would compliment the mare more than a full Trakehner would, then go for it! I like to see Trakehners (stallions and mares) that have multiple approvals under their wings. It makes the breed look good as a whole when OTHER registries approve them and feel that they are nice enough that they would improve upon their own breeds. Just my two cents on it.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Altamont Sport Horses View Post
                                      Have you had dealings with the American Trakehner Association lately? I've only been active with them for a couple of years but I've been rather impressed with them and for that reason have dove right in. They solicit feedback and are certainly committed to improving the breed and the registry. They are smaller than some of the other registries and being a non-profit organization relying on volunteers it can take awhile to make all the changes that are identified as necessary for organizational improvement and growth. Nonetheless, the ATA seems to be doing quite well from what I have seen and I expect it to only continue getting better.
                                      No, we haven't been involved with the ATA lately (last 4 years or so) and I really don't want to talk badly about anyone, or go into it here.

                                      Suffice it to say that we love and appreciate the Trakehner horse for what they bring to the table. Disposition, soundness, talent. They have been and always will be the foundation of our program.

                                      We produced the co-highest scoring colt in NA this year for RPSI. He is 62.5%Trakehner, 25% Arabian and 12.5% Hanoverian by blood. He has the sweetest disposition and we expect he will develop into a fancy horse. Our intention is to keep him and show him.
                                      Patty
                                      www.rivervalefarm.com
                                      Follow us on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/River...ref=ts&fref=ts

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        There can be hard feelings following stallion approvals or disapprovals.

                                        I wouldn't want to be a breed inspector.
                                        www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X