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"Apron" face paints and crosses sometimes deaf?

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  • Izthatrt
    started a topic "Apron" face paints and crosses sometimes deaf?

    "Apron" face paints and crosses sometimes deaf?

    Ran into a woman the other nite at a Christmas function who stated she had 2 paint /tb crosses, both breeding stock, but w/apron faces who were both deaf. She stated it really isn't that uncommon w/apron faced paints. I never heard of this(although I don't know much about the paints) I just wondered if anyone else was aware of this genetic issue w/them.

  • belambi
    replied
    you can actually tell from looking..but yes, I meant seems deaf.
    Deaf horses ears are set at a slightly different angle, almost 'lower' than usuall, and obviously the ear is far less 'radar' like in its movement.

    Leave a comment:


  • RiddleMeThis
    replied
    Pretty sure she means she acts like shes deaf.

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  • JB
    replied
    What do you mean the mare "appears" deaf? You can't tell from looking.

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  • belambi
    replied
    The mare appears deaf..the colt I am not sure about. They are TB.


    Leave a comment:


  • TaliaCristianna
    replied
    Originally posted by TrueColours View Post

    Out of curiosity, have you owned or dealt with a deaf horse before or are you just going by what you heard from someone else?
    One of my best friends from high school use to own a deaf grade gelding. We lived about a mile and a half from each other. She would ride towards my house and I would ride towards hers. We'd meet somewhere in the middle and trail ride once or twice a week when the weather was nice.

    I rode with her for months before she told me Domino was deaf. I had absolutely no clue. He was an excellent trail horse and never gave her any problems.

    There are thousands of hearing horses with behavioral issues too. You have to wonder what part of your mare's problems were attributable to her being deaf and what portion were attributable to environmental or genetic factors. If you didn't raise the horse yourself and if you weren't really familiar with her parents' personalities and dispositions then there really isn't any way to know.

    Leave a comment:


  • RiddleMeThis
    replied
    Ive worked with a few. From one of the people I was talking about earlier. Nothing phased her at all.

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  • TrueColours
    replied
    I would never purposefully breed FOR deafness, but I would have no qualms about owning a deaf horse and breeding that horse if it proved worthy of reproducing.
    *I* said the exact same thing, until I owned one ...

    I had every intention of breeding this mare myself and thought that if all of her foals DID turn out deaf, I wouldnt have a problem selling them.

    WRONGO ...

    I had literally "0" enquiries on her in utero foals and of those people that DID enquire, the first question asked was what the odds were of her foals being born deaf and everyone then indicated that if the foal was deaf, they had "0" interest in dealing with it and owning it

    Out of curiosity, have you owned or dealt with a deaf horse before or are you just going by what you heard from someone else?

    Leave a comment:


  • Ridge Runner
    replied
    I know of a Col. Spanish horse...pure white...that was deaf...or at least his owner believe he was. He was not tested. He was as calm and easy going as you'd imagine too. He is out of the white mare that I own who since I've had her, has not produced any more apparently deaf foals.

    Leave a comment:


  • TaliaCristianna
    replied
    Originally posted by RiddleMeThis View Post
    Both of those examples are the complete opposite of everything I have ever heard from people who have had numerous deaf horses.

    Nothing bothered them, even things coming up behind them or out of the blue. Nothing in the show ring bothered them either. Even when things would accidentally get into the ring from the stands. Nothing bothered them on the trails or while working on the ranches either.

    Everyone I know that has had them said if they could they would make all of theirs deaf.
    I've heard the same thing.

    I would never purposefully breed FOR deafness, but I would have no qualms about owning a deaf horse and breeding that horse if it proved worthy of reproducing.

    Leave a comment:


  • RiddleMeThis
    replied
    Originally posted by JB View Post
    Right - but the fact that it comes from Splash, even if it's not always present with Splash, makes it genetic. It's a bit like hip displaysia - GSDs are prone to it, but having GSD blood doesn't guarantee it, but it's still a genetic disorder.
    Theres a genetic component to it, but not geneticall caused. At least not the way I think of it. A bit like alcoholism. The predisposition for it is there but it doesnt make you and alcoholic.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    Originally posted by camohn View Post
    Just to clarify........the lack of pigment in the ear does not cause deafness.....the genetic flaw that causes deafness is accompanied by white ears. It is not at all the same thing. If the lack of pigment that causes white ears caused deafness there would be a whole lot more deaf horses. There are tons of horses with white faces and ears that are NOT deaf.
    The ears don't have to be white for the horse to be deaf, as it's the inner ear that is affected.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    Originally posted by RiddleMeThis View Post
    The ability for the pattern/white to make the horse deaf is genetic i.e. splash but the actual deafness is not imo. Splash is genetic but some splashes are deaf some are not.
    Right - but the fact that it comes from Splash, even if it's not always present with Splash, makes it genetic. It's a bit like hip displaysia - GSDs are prone to it, but having GSD blood doesn't guarantee it, but it's still a genetic disorder.

    Leave a comment:


  • camohn
    replied
    Originally posted by JWB View Post
    Not sure if it works in horses quite like it does in dogs - but for dogs, the deafness itself is not "genetic".... It's the lack of pigment inside the ear.

    Whether it's dogs or horses, why would it be okay to breed an animal specifically to be handicapped?
    Just to clarify........the lack of pigment in the ear does not cause deafness.....the genetic flaw that causes deafness is accompanied by white ears. It is not at all the same thing. If the lack of pigment that causes white ears caused deafness there would be a whole lot more deaf horses. There are tons of horses with white faces and ears that are NOT deaf.

    Leave a comment:


  • RiddleMeThis
    replied
    Originally posted by JB View Post
    Depends on what the actual cause of the deafness is. If it's due to the Splash gene limiting the pigment to the inner ear, than since it has to come from one parent or the other, that makes it genetic.
    The ability for the pattern/white to make the horse deaf is genetic i.e. splash but the actual deafness is not imo. Splash is genetic but some splashes are deaf some are not.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    Originally posted by JWB View Post
    Not sure if it works in horses quite like it does in dogs - but for dogs, the deafness itself is not "genetic".... It's the lack of pigment inside the ear.
    Depends on what the actual cause of the deafness is. If it's due to the Splash gene limiting the pigment to the inner ear, than since it has to come from one parent or the other, that makes it genetic. It's either genetic, or congentital. So yes, even in dogs, it's genetic, unless you're saying it's a common congenital defect?

    Whether it's dogs or horses, why would it be okay to breed an animal specifically to be handicapped?
    I suppose it depends on what the handicap is, and what the reasons are. I don't think it's good practice to breed for a deaf horse. I personally don't feel deafness is SO bad that no Splash horses should ever be bred again. I think it's not common enough, nor is it such a handicap for most horses.

    Leave a comment:


  • RiddleMeThis
    replied
    Originally posted by JWB View Post
    Whether it's dogs or horses, why would it be okay to breed an animal specifically to be handicapped?
    Well to the people I know its not a handicap. Its the exact opposite. It makes them even better at what they do.

    ETA:I just wanted to say that yes that is how I believe they said it works.

    Leave a comment:


  • JWB
    replied
    Not sure if it works in horses quite like it does in dogs - but for dogs, the deafness itself is not "genetic".... It's the lack of pigment inside the ear.

    Whether it's dogs or horses, why would it be okay to breed an animal specifically to be handicapped?

    Leave a comment:


  • amdfarm
    replied
    Probably a silly question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. How do you know if a horse is deaf?

    I have a bald face blue eyed half paint (splash, sabino, overo and all that), but I don't *think* he's deaf. He moves his ears and such like he's listening to me, but he's done another thing that makes me wonder if he can't hear me coming, as to why he's doing it. Reading these stories makes me wonder now. I own his parents and they're both fine in the hearing department.

    Gunner is beautiful.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gestalt
    replied
    Originally posted by RiddleMeThis View Post
    Everyone I know that has had them said if they could they would make all of theirs deaf.

    This statement is going to give me nightmares.

    A friend bought a WB from somewhere near San Diego and 6 months later discovered he was deaf. He is a very tough ride. He is hyper alert and when he "sees" something that interests him, she has the devil of a time regaining his attention. Breeding deaf horses is the same insanity as breeding for the cutting horses that lose their skin. I think a lot of those people should be put on fugly. It's not just the backyard breeder that's bad.

    Leave a comment:

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