• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Top 25 mare families in the world

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • These are offspring, that didn't make it to 16h, of 16h or greater stallions, and ARE Holsteiners, but not 16h. If they were stallions, they would still be branded Holsteiner, but not approvable as stallions. That's the difference.
    Yes, and Hickstead is a registered KWPN horse. Didn't the AHHA used to have a criteria that a horse had to have a certain percentage of Holsteiner blood to be holstein?

    The Trakehner people consider themselves a breed too but still allow arab & TB, yet you have to have some Trakehner blood to be a Trakehner.

    The Hanoverian people here in the US for a long time required 50% hano blood but I think they are/did away with that requirement - and they didn't have it in Germany.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
      Not upset, but...sport horses are bred for competition, not just for breeding. Most of the other animals you have mentioned are simply bred for conformation competitions. By refusing to accept horses that have proved themselves in the highest levels of competition but are under 16 h or 16.2, a registry loses some powerful heritable talents--jumping is 40% heritable, so one could say that a large proportion of Hickstead's get have a good chance of inheriting his jumping talent.

      Just seems sort of short sighted.

      And as Tom said, have they a size upper limit?
      Exactly.

      Very few of us care whether Hickstead is approved Holsteiner Verband, or AHHA. It's the reasoning behind why some people think he shouldn't have been approved AHHA that's caused this whole long discussion/ argument.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Tiki View Post
        Juniors can't ride stallions in hunter classes. period. These are offspring, that didn't make it to 16h, of 16h or greater stallions, and ARE Holsteiners, but not 16h. If they were stallions, they would still be branded Holsteiner, but not approvable as stallions. That's the difference.

        Calling yourself a breed registry and not a sport horse registry and then claiming top titles for jumpers doesn't go together. Also, how can you be a 'breed' registry and let in other breeds? As Tom, whom you seem to hate so much now, said about Cornet Oblensky, he is a Belgian Warmblood who is approved for breeding with other registries. You and Reece talk about TB stallions who seem to be taken over and claimed as Holsteiners once they are approved. Whether this is used for breeding purposes or not, it is STILL a TB stallion, and ALL his offspring are half TB, even IF branded Holsteiner.

        The Dutch will do this with mares. If your outside breed mare is impressive enough, the Dutch (in this country, since they don't brand in Europe) will offer to brand her KWPN. WTF???????
        Oy, I see this fundamental misunderstanding covers a lot of territory. It's possible to debate with someone and not end up hating them. Our argument is about breeding horses... that difference of opinion is no cause to hate anyone. If I was an eye-roller, here is where I would do it.

        I can see you have no interest in breeding Holsteiners. That's fine, but there are those who do have an interest. It would be good to just shrug your shoulders and go on with breeding your own way. Why argue about a breeding philosophy you have no interest in?

        This thread is about mare families... if anyone wants to talk about the OPs topic, I'm game... otherwise, Ciao!
        http://ShowjumpersUSA.com
        CAMPESINO (1990 - 2008)
        Capitol I - Sacramento Song xx
        http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/annalisasmith

        Comment


        • Have you run across any Adith daughters?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by tri View Post
            Have you run across any Adith daughters?
            No, I haven't.. but I haven't been looking. I'm selling most of my broodmares, not in the market for more.

            I'll help you gather data if you want more mare family information, but don't know where to go to find it. If you've got a plan, let me know what I can do.
            http://ShowjumpersUSA.com
            CAMPESINO (1990 - 2008)
            Capitol I - Sacramento Song xx
            http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/annalisasmith

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              Originally posted by tri View Post
              Tiki are you talking to me because that is my post you are quoting but then the body of your post is not stuff that I said and I have never acted like I hate Tom?

              Nobody HATES Tom ! You people......I swear ! I just emphatically dis-agree with some of his statements and positions, as does he with me.

              As far as Hickstead goes.......he is not a holsteiner and doesn't meet the minimum height requirements to breed in the AHHA book. Simple as that.

              At a time when the AHHA is trying to come more in line with the breeding practices of the Holsteiner Verband and given it's
              "outcross mare base"........the last thing it needs is an outcross stallion in my opinion.

              Alot of you don't understand that the Holsteiner Verband breeds as much for their own type as they do for outrageous jumping ability. The have a certain type where as the KWPN uses stallions from 10 or 12 different studbooks and they don't have or breed for a certain type.

              I don't think Hickstead has even been considered yet for HV approval due to his standing on NA soil. It is of my opinion tha the HV will never approve this stallion for that reason, as well as his type , blood and stature issues.

              If you want to breed Holsteiners.......it must be done a certain way. If you don't......you must call them something else and here in lies the problem. Most people in this Assoc. want to call their horses Holsteiners, but very few want to actually breed one.
              Last edited by Bayhawk; Dec. 6, 2008, 12:53 PM.

              Comment


              • At a time when the AHHA is trying to come more in line with the breeding practices of the Holsteiner Verband and given it's
                "outcross mare base"........the last thing it needs is an outcross stallion in my opinion.
                There is a lot of validity in this statement. That is also the reason for the AHS stance on requiring the 50% hano rule that wasn't in force in Hanover. I used to think that the AHS's rule was wrong but Edgar, one day, explained the position that the studbook could easily be overrun with TB blood or other blood deviating from the original hanoverian base that was the foundation of the studbook and it makes sense.

                I think there are those who want to breed "hanoverians" or "holsteiners" or "some euro label" and end up after a generation or two with a horse that doesn't have anything to do with what is being bred in the particular region it was named for.

                It gives you all of the downsides of having a foreign entity controlling your industry and little of the upside....and the market splitting your product as distinctly different and less desirable that the "real" thing.

                Comment


                • I'll help you gather data if you want more mare family information, but don't know where to go to find it. If you've got a plan, let me know what I can do.
                  I'm not in the market either. I want to campaign my two up and coming homebreds in the spring and thats enough with the others coming up behind. But...if an Adith daughter became available.....

                  Running Creek Farm - where Lisa had their breeding operation with Adith - has been sold and I don't know where they are now.

                  If Americans want to "have" mare lines, then Americans need to know which ones are worth having and make sure that they aren't lost. We also need to market them - one of my criticism of the euro wb registries is that they have no interest in identifying any other line than what is IN EUORPE and that even if one did, it is so fractured here, all the other tiny little wb registries wouldn't get the info.

                  I remember another thread regarding the Twist lines and it seemed like most thought that the line was mostly lost but then in the listing you posted, there were two on it with Twist dams.

                  Obviously sport people have and are using the Twist lines but the breeders don't have a clue?? Who else has good solid Twist mares bred to top SJ wb stallions and wouldn't those daughters be worth having/tracking??

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by tri View Post
                    I think there are those who want to breed "hanoverians" or "holsteiners" or "some euro label" and end up after a generation or two with a horse that doesn't have anything to do with what is being bred in the particular region it was named for.

                    It gives you all of the downsides of having a foreign entity controlling your industry and little of the upside....and the market splitting your product as distinctly different and less desirable that the "real" thing.
                    You make a good point, tri. If we Americans are going to use our own US mare base to breed sporthorses, I think we should call them American Hanovarians or American Holsteiners, etc. That would end the infighting and give American breeders specific goals.

                    It's no different than what the Europeans did after WWII. They had to start with what they had, set goals, and move forward. They had a plan. We can do that, too. Start with what we have, set guidelines for breeding and develop a breed of our own. It takes patience and willingness to breed generationally.

                    One thing they do there that is impressive to me is their recruiting of young breeders and their program of education and hands on experience for them. A sure way to keep their stated goals on track.
                    http://ShowjumpersUSA.com
                    CAMPESINO (1990 - 2008)
                    Capitol I - Sacramento Song xx
                    http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/annalisasmith

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by MagicRoseFarm View Post
                      While I appreciate the education on this thread, I sure wish I did not have to wade through the "wannabee experts" who show what they DON'T know every time they open their mouth, clogging the thread with proof.

                      menopausal rant over
                      ty and back to our regularly scheduled thread....
                      Nice menopausal rant.

                      Just like a kid throwing a mud pie.... Why even post something like this?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by tri View Post
                        I remember another thread regarding the Twist lines and it seemed like most thought that the line was mostly lost but then in the listing you posted, there were two on it with Twist dams.

                        Obviously sport people have and are using the Twist lines but the breeders don't have a clue?? Who else has good solid Twist mares bred to top SJ wb stallions and wouldn't those daughters be worth having/tracking??
                        This is why I mention the Twist lines whenever I have the nerve to interject myself into a thread about TB breeding.

                        I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to TBs, but Triple Twist looks to me like a beautiful opportunity to do some generational breeding. This Twist line is very interesting and has been very successful. What a pedigree if you want the Bonne Nuit line in your mare herd. If I wanted to breed with TB mares, I might want to breed this stallion to a really good TB mare, hope for a filly and use her for breeding sporthorses in the future. It's a shame to have this known bloodline available and not use him to produce breeding stock. All that line breeding might be what makes him a bit small, so he would need an absolute outcross mare... but it might be an interesting experiment.

                        Just an observation from someone who knows nothing about Thoroughbreds.
                        http://ShowjumpersUSA.com
                        CAMPESINO (1990 - 2008)
                        Capitol I - Sacramento Song xx
                        http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/annalisasmith

                        Comment


                        • Did he ever sell? I think they were asking $25,000?

                          From what I understand, they think it was the lack of care growing up that stunted his growth. Does anyone know how tall his sire & dam were? That would give a good indication.

                          I'd like to see him on some good, powerfully built wb mares and see what those daughters would do. Take those daughters to a stallion like V'tropez who was an int'l jumper and also has Twist in his dam line?

                          Does anyone know what any Coconut Grove horses have done?

                          Comment


                          • Some of the Twist line horses did run small. The Chapots have kept a horse named Nicholas Amber (http://www.pedigreequery.com/nicholas+amber ) who is tiny--barely 15h, I understand. They've never bred him, and he probably isn't entire. If he were, think what a wonderful pony jumper sire he might be.

                            Triple Twist seems to have been sold, as his last owner posted on the eventing board that she was planning how to haul him to his new owner. I would have loved, and posted it here, to have found a Bonne Cause tail female mare that had been used in racing (there are some on the West Coast, and I found one in New Mexico), cross her with Triple Twist, hope for a filly, and THEN do the outcross.
                            "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                            Thread killer Extraordinaire

                            Comment


                            • Oh , I wonder if the new owners are going to geld him. What a shame if they do.

                              Comment


                              • I haven't said anything offically because I don't want to jinx myself but as of right now Triple Twist is sold and will remain entire. I will post the full details when ok'ed by new owner but I am supposed to haul him to MD on Friday. Thank you all for your kind words and if everything goes as planned Trey will be heading for the H/J show ring. Hopefully this will be his chance to make his mark!
                                There is no secret so close as that between a rider and his horse-Robert Smith Surtees
                                Breeding TBs, Connemaras and TB/Conn crosses for eventing
                                www.twistoffateeventing.com

                                Comment


                                • Triple Twist's dam (5th one down) http://www.darkhorsefarm.com/mares.html

                                  Triple Twist's sire was listed as 16 hands on the old stallion ad I have for him.
                                  There is no secret so close as that between a rider and his horse-Robert Smith Surtees
                                  Breeding TBs, Connemaras and TB/Conn crosses for eventing
                                  www.twistoffateeventing.com

                                  Comment


                                  • Her daughter that is 45 days under saddle looks tall and leggy. It is wonderful to see this line being used and going. I hope we will be able to keep track of them.

                                    I wish we knew more about the two dams of the other Twist horses on Showjumper's list.

                                    Comment


                                    • Twistoffate, good luck for your future and thank you for bringing us Triple Twist's story.

                                      Comment


                                      • Top mares families

                                        I particularly agree with 90% of the ranking made by this magazine, but...but...how could they forget about the Holsteiner stamm 730B...this is one of the most influential stamms in the holsteiner breeding...it is called, in Germany,the Caletto's stamm !
                                        Caletto I has hundreds of mares as mainbook.
                                        Caletto II is the mother' s father of the superstars : Cassini I, Cento, Indoctro ...and he died at just 6 years old !!! He stood only for four seasons and let other 11 approved sons ( Caretino is one of them )
                                        It's unforgivable to deny such influence !
                                        I would dare to insert this mare family among the top 10...with a lot of arguments !
                                        This ranking is really reliable but also discussable !

                                        Comment


                                        • Probably because what we are looking here is at the mare line and the mare line of Cassini is holst stamm 3389, Cento is holst stamm 2137 and Indoctro is holst stamm 7299 .

                                          The mare lines only include the mother’ sire as an information.

                                          We look at the dam and her progenies, the dam of the dam and her progenies etc…

                                          I am certainly not saying that Caletto mare line is not that good, it sure is but you can not count the above stallions for this mare line.
                                          Suzanne
                                          bloomingtonfarm.com
                                          Breeder of Royal Dutch Sport Horse

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X