Just a random question - does anyone breed draft crosses for sport?

[Flying Hearts]

I'm sure there must be those who do, but I don't know of them. I have known some fugly draft crosses, as well as some who were high level sporthorses. Are those super nice ones just random draft crosses that someone found on craigslist, or are there some breeders out there *consistently* producing nice draft x sporthorses?

[horsetales]

Not really a draft X, but I will put it out there anyway. Biased as it is, I believe the best heavier x lighter cross is the Irish Draught Sport Horse. It is consistently in the international rankings for top event horses. There are also a large number of upper level jumpers. There are a few in dressage, but few upper level riders will consider one.

[Donatella]

Georgian Grandes are Saddlebreds crossed with drafts or Friesians, so searching Georgian Grande might find you some sportier draft crosses. Friesian Sporthorses will allow 1/4 draft into their lower books, so that may be another option to find sportier crosses with draft. There are also lots of draft cross "American Warmbloods", one more search option. They're out there and there are people breeding them but they might not all be marketed as draft crosses. I've also heard from a few folks (respected breeders) that the cross is much better when the draft is "diluted", as in second generation breeding and only 1/4 draft, but breeding into a second generation takes more dedication than straight draft crossing so the 50/50's are probably more common.

I don't think of Irish Draught as "draft" any more than Friesian but I've seen some really nice IDs, IDSHs, and Friesians for something heavier and sporty, OP, for yet another option of something with size and a sane brain (like a draft cross).

[ThisMagicMoment]

A great trainer of mine swore by 1/8 clyde, 7/8 TB. I am not sure if you really consider that a draft x, more of some clyde seasoning on the top ;-)

She had a breeder friend and they would breed for the 1/8 clydes. She swore by clydes because of their good step, and it would help make the TB a bit more manageable and versatile, and shorten the stride very slightly. She had some good success with these crosses - they are just too difficult to find. And would take a lot of generations to breed it before they weren't draft heavy.

So yes, I suppose I know of at least one person who uses draft x for sport!

Her breeder friend is based on Southern Ontario, and yes, that's what they breed for!

[Bravestrom]

www.shadymaplefarm.com
www.ontariobreedersproductionsale.com

We have bred some - now we have a couple left but they are 1/8 draft, with tb and warmblood.

[cyriz's mom]

Yes, there are some people who purpose breed draft crosses, typically for foxhunting and eventing.

I don't have any draft or part draft mares, but a number (and variety) have been bred to Cyriz. Full RID, IDSH, Half Perch, full Perch, half Shire, full Clyde and seems like a half Belgian. I personally have lived (well loved, actually) the 3/4 TB 1/4 drafts. The half drafts are just a bit heavy for my taste.

I think the key to breeding draft crosses is to start with a well conformed mare and use a stallion of good type and known for his prepotency. I think if you breed quality to quality, the results are nice, athletic, sturdy sporthorses.

[eaconlee]

I've been told (and my limited observations have backed up) that the body type depends on which parent is the draft when breeding for draft crosses. When the dam is draft, the foal will end up being the shorter, heavier body style. When the sire is draft, the foal ends up with the draft height, but lighter body style. I have no idea why that would be, but it has held true in every case I've seen. There is some research indicated that the size of the mare does affect the foal outcome even when it is an embryo transplant.

I owned a Shire sire/TB dam cross and the horse was almost his sire's height, but body more TB style. Big head and draft neck and feet though for sure. But he could clear a 5' jump from a slow trot. Carted my 13 yo around the 1.20m jumpers with great attitude and kindness.

And seems like the draft crosses have a harder time getting their lead changes and aren't necessarily super clean jumpers but not spooky and very ammy friendly. But that's from my very limited experience!

[Sonesta]

FWIW,
I know a lady who runs a riding vacation ranch and mostly uses her homebred Arabians for guests because they are hardy and surefooted. Because sometimes she needs large horses for some guests she started breeding her Arabian stallions to Percheron mares. She got the size she wanted but stopped the program and got rid of all the crosses after a number of years when they proved to be quite "bucky" and not trustworthy for the guests.

[BumbleBee]

Shady Maple in ontario Canada produces really nice crosses. I shoe quite a number of them for their current owners. I have seen to many to count excell at the national level in all english disciplins. Oh an my gosh can you say great hooves and temperment to go with the athletic ability.

[sherian]

I have bred a few 3/4 breds and 7/8 bred tb/draft crosses and if you use a good stock you do get a nice sport horse type with ammy friendly brain and good feet. Most are not going to the Olympics but will pack over jumps and have no problem in the 3'9 to 4' range and do a steady if not brilliant dressage test and forgive you your errors. Business wise, unless you have the time and money to campaign them, the general public tends to lump you in with the draft crosses produced when Farmer Bob throws a broken down sprinter bred tb out with a herd of draft types with mix master trots bought at the local auction to produce a bunch a frankenhorse crosses that he markets as sport horse prospects. The educated buyers get tired of sorting threw the garbage and buy a warmblood, the uneducated buy the mixmaster because its cheaper. By the time I spend the time and money to campaign them, its not worth it in my area other then a few for my own use.

[MuskokaLakesConnemaras]

I have a fantastic Irish Draught/Connemara cross that I very excite about. Stunning lad with an even more awesome temperament and the movement to knock your socks off!

[columbus]

Purebred Irish Draughts

I think the comparison for a half bred heavy draft cross would be the purebred Irish Draught. There ARE large substantial Irish Draught Sport Horses but consistently the purebred should be of similar substance to a half heavy draft. I stand a very large Irish Draught stallion named Beeston Laird and I expect substantial halfbreds by him but Irish Draughts today can range from about a modern warmblood substance to a horse as large as Laird who is 17.2 and 11 inches of bone...he is on the large size. They should never be Heavy draft types or even the modern hitchy type heavy drafts. The Irish Draught is the heaviest warmblood not the lightest heavy draft. My very large ID mare is 17.2 1700lbs and very light moving and jumping. My smallest Irish Draught mare is 15.1 and about 1200lbs also very light moving with tons of suspension. The reduction in number of the heavy draft crosses has come from the reduction in the Premarin urine farms who used drafts because of their quiet temperaments and often crossed them with light horse breeds to produce foals to sell. Most of these have closed. Breeding them is a gamble because the results vary so widely. A great percheron cross is a very fine horse but an unlucky cross can be very odd and not sound. You will still find them at various sales in the midwest. PatO

[Kyzteke]

Can't help with the breeder's part, but I'm old enough to remember when THE sought after eventer or field hunter was 1/8th to 1/4 draft (usually Perch or Clyde, which are the "lighter", more refined breeds of draft) with the rest being TB.

Back then there were no RID in America, but over in Ireland, again the best sport horses bred for jumping & cross country were the same %, but they used the RID instead of our "draft" breeds.

Most people don't want a 50-50 cross, as they tend to still be too heavy.

Not sure if anyone is still breeding them, as it isn't as easy as throwing a bunch of TB mares out with a Perch stallion....

[crosscreeksh]

I have bred a few 3/4 breds and 7/8 bred tb/draft crosses and if you use a good stock you do get a nice sport horse type with ammy friendly brain and good feet. Most are not going to the Olympics but will pack over jumps and have no problem in the 3'9 to 4' range and do a steady if not brilliant dressage test and forgive you your errors. Business wise, unless you have the time and money to campaign them, the general public tends to lump you in with the draft crosses produced when Farmer Bob throws a broken down sprinter bred tb out with a herd of draft types with mix master trots bought at the local auction to produce a bunch a frankenhorse crosses that he markets as sport horse prospects. The educated buyers get tired of sorting threw the garbage and buy a warmblood, the uneducated buy the mixmaster because its cheaper. By the time I spend the time and money to campaign them, its not worth it in my area other then a few for my own use.

**********

"This" nails it!! We bred 1/2, 3/4, 7/8 TB=Clyde crosses for years and most went to the higher levels of their chosen sport in hunters, eventing, jumpers and foxhunting...but with the influx of PMU foals, the draft crosses got a bad rap just as Sherian noted. We made a gradual shift to ISH's with 1/2, 3/4 and 7/8 TB blood. I don't know if they are far superior to our TB/Clyde crosses. but the "Irish" influence gives them more credibility and value.

[sherian]

You can see why the Georgian Grande and Spanish Norman registries came about as marketing/"branding" attempts - maybe I should start the "Winnipeg Warmblood Registry".
Crosscreek - if I win the lottery I am going to buy Mac for my hubby.

[mishmash]

www.forresthillfarm.com

Purpose bred draft crosses, specializing in dressage, but have sold a few who are doing well at eventing with amateur owners. Head trainer showed her full Percheron at Grand Prix, and they have bred several FEI level Perch/TB crosses. Athletic, amateur friendly horses, started correctly.

[HickoryHill]

I've been told (and my limited observations have backed up) that the body type depends on which parent is the draft when breeding for draft crosses. When the dam is draft, the foal will end up being the shorter, heavier body style. When the sire is draft, the foal ends up with the draft height, but lighter body style. I have no idea why that would be, but it has held true in every case I've seen. There is some research indicated that the size of the mare does affect the foal outcome even when it is an embryo transplant.

I personally can not confirm this. My Saddlebred/Percheron gelding is 16.3h and looks like a heavy Saddlebred with a bigger head and a shorter neck.
My Percheron/ Paint (1/2 TB) is as short as her mom 15.3h but a hunk like her dad with huge platter feed.

[Mozart]

http://www.ravineranchsporthorses.com/site/

These people have put some nice useful horses horses on the ground and in the show ring. They put TB and WB stallions to mares that have some draft blood in them. Although, it appears that as their breeding program matures, they have begun to incorporate more wb.

The offspring have been quite successful locally. A couple of friends have bought babies from them and have been more than happy with the result.

[mountainhorse]

Whelan of Clare farm in Camden, SC breeds Irish Draft sport horses. They are lovely to work with.

[crosscreeksh]

Just adding. I was happy with ALL of the TB (stud) X Clyde horses we bred, but I agree ....3/4 TB or more is MUCH more athletic and marketable. Out here in Oklahoma/Ks. a lot of people hunt (coyote) pure or 1/2 draft, but they are rarely seen after the first gallop. I'm sure they enjoy the scenery though!! We are loving the 3/4 TB, Irish Sport Horse youngsters we have bred. They have TB conformation and movement and puppy dog dispositions. Very athletic, but incredibly easy to live with.