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Help guessing mares color? Updated with dna results post 48

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  • Help guessing mares color? Updated with dna results post 48

    I was hoping to get some opinions to the color of our 1/2 welsh mare Kahlooa N Kreme. She is a three year old and we have just started her under saddle training. She is by the Cremello Sec.A Welsh stallion Creme De Mint. I am aSSuming she is a buckskin but wondering if she may carry the silver gene as well. She has change her colors a trillion times it seems. We just recently body clipped her as she will start going out to some schooling shows soon. We were amazed at the color she turned out. I love it and hope it is a reflection of what color she will end up. Or will she be a chameleon the rest of her life...Any ways would love some input. I am thinking of sending out hair samples to be tested. It would just be neat to know what color she is considered.
    Thanks

    Before body clip:http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...60/t_=98790260
    http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...60/t_=98790260
    After Body clip:http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...60/t_=98790260
    http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...60/t_=98790260
    http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...60/t_=98790260
    http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...60/t_=98790260
    Worth A Shot Farm
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  • #2
    What was the color of your mare's dam?

    I own a silver buckskin APHA mare. Looking at the "pre-clip" photos I'd say your mare could very well be silver. Cream tends to "cancel out" silver's effects a bit. The only way to really know is to test!

    She really reminds me of my mare's dam. She is a silver buckskin as well.

    Angel's dam:

    http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com...o-g192518.html

    Angel:

    http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com...o-g151090.html

    http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com...o-g178844.html

    http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com...o-g188608.html

    Angel obviously carries sooty too. This makes her color quite a bit darker then your mare's.
    We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

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    • Original Poster

      #3
      I didn't own the mare although I do have a picture of her from her breeder. I believe she is a qh type pony but I don't know her breeding or her pedigree. I do know that the mare has one of the best dispositions I have ever seen on a pony. But who knows what is lurking back in her pedigee either. You mare and filly are beautiful. Thank you for the responce.
      http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...60/t_=98790260
      Worth A Shot Farm
      Finding the horse of your dreams, is always Worth A Shot!
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      • #4
        Thank you! Angel is a horse of a different color for sure...

        Looking at your mare's dam, I can tell you for sure that silver wouldn't have came from her. Silver shows on all black-based horses (Which includes blacks, bays, buckskins, smoky blacks and browns.) I see no silver traits on that mare whatsoever.

        Silver would have had to come from the stallion. Silver "hides" on red-based horses. (I.E., a sorrel, chestnut, palomino and cremello can carry silver but you wouldn't be able to tell by looking at the horse.) Silver does exist in the Welsh breed though it is pretty rare.

        You can read more about silver on my friend's website:

        www.silverequine.com

        Best of luck with your beautiful mare!
        We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

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        • #5
          She looks like a pale roan to me. Roan are known for changing "color" constantly. I look at the dark point and the darker head and I think roan (on bay).
          Very cute!
          Véronique
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          • #6
            Definitely buckskin, no roan, and I do not think silver. Silver on most ponies tends to be MUCH MUCH more obvious than on horses.
            Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
            http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/

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            • #7
              That's so funny, I was going to say buckskin too, but thought it couldn't be that simple!

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              • #8
                She is buckskin. It is the only color she can be as she is obviously not palomino nor is she smoky black. She may have gotten the silver gene from her sire along with the creme gene, but you would have to look at him and his parents to be sure. There are HUGE variations in the buckskin color and many change color from season to season. For example our stallion QuickGoldBucks(he is body clipped in his most recent pics) and his foals Amber's Saucy Gold and Goldenwing
                Fox Haven Farm, Inc.
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                • #9
                  Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a silver-ish buckskin considered a GRULLA?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Char View Post
                    Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a silver-ish buckskin considered a GRULLA?
                    Nope, not at all. Grulla is black + dun. Buckskin is bay + cream. To VERY different two colors.
                    Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
                    http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Char View Post
                      Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a silver-ish buckskin considered a GRULLA?
                      Like RMT said, nope, not the same thing.

                      BUT, what can get confusing is QH people like to call a horse a "silver grulla" when he's light enough to have a silvery cast to him. Here's an example of what someone calls "silver grulla" that is only grulla:
                      http://pets.webshots.com/photo/14767...73250204ZAbutR

                      He's "silver" alright, but not genetically Silver. Just a very light grulla.

                      To compare, here is a black silver - a black horse (E?aa) who is also Silver (Z?)
                      http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z...ntainHorse.jpg

                      And, here are some examples of true Silver Grullas
                      http://www.grullablue.com/colors/grullocolor.htm#silver
                      ______________________________
                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        I am just starting to learn all the differences in these colors. The reason I thought she might me a siver was that I was told that because her black points on her legs we diluted to a Chocolate color that she might be considered a Silver buckskin. Also she has very amber colored eyes. She is the first Buckskin I have owned and did not realize the we soooo many variations. Thanks for all the input It has been very helpful.
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                        • #13
                          Another vote for buckskin unless she has a dorsal stripe, then she is a dun
                          Founder of the Dyslexic Clique. Dyslexics of the world - UNTIE!!

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                          • #14
                            The presence of a dorsal stripe alone does not indicate dun (which is an entirely separate color modifier gene); it is very common for buckskins and bays to have dorsal stripes due to counter-shading (aka sooty or smutty). So, I still vote strongly for Buckskin.

                            This website has some good examples of color modifiers (like sooty) and other weird patterns http://www.whitehorseproductions.com/ecg_basics4.html while I think the Wiki article has particularly good information on dun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dun_gene

                            This one's just plain good for getting your feet under you with regard to color combinations and patterns http://www.equinecolor.com/color.html
                            RIP Adriane, aka Eyesontheground, 6/4/83-9/14/09
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                            Veronica II (Vienna Waltz/Woermann)

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                            • #15
                              buckskin

                              Buckskins can change colour a bajillion times while they're growing up.
                              mine have gone from deep dark chocolate, to mouse grey, to a sort of bronzey/taupe and mushroom.

                              Now that my oldest is five, he seems to have "chosen" his permanent summer colour, a medium tan sort of shade. His winter coat is coming in, and will probably go greyish again.

                              a 3 yr old filly goes chocolate in the spring, a darker sort of taupe during the summer with darkish bronze bits through her face, and shoulder, but goes mouse-grey in winter.

                              Its always fun to see what new shades they'll be each year.

                              same with the palominos. They seem to change and go darker each year. in the winter, no matter how dark they are in summer, they all go the colour of yellow snow.
                              LESS HARD WORK, MORE FINE DINING!™
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                              • #16
                                If there are amber eyes, is there any skin mottling around the nose/eyes/genetalia?

                                I don't see anything that would make me suspect champagne, and amber eyes can exist without it. But it doesn't hurt to ask
                                ______________________________
                                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  It is sad to say but I will have to double check today when I am at the farm. I dont believe so though. I was painting her hooves yesterday and noticed that she had stripes on them ...almost how an appy would. But I am pretty sure there isn't any appy in there.LOL
                                  All her legs are a chocolate color when they are not clipped and I think that may be why the breeder thought she could posiblely care the silver gene. It is all very interesting. Thanks so much for all the links. it is very neat to see all the different shades out there.
                                  Quick question. If I send off her hair to be tested, do they only test againt the silver gene or will I have a definate answer of what her color is even if it's doesn't end up being silver?
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                                  • #18
                                    Hi alliekat!!!

                                    I bred the pony in question, and her color was an enigma for a long time (she went through some dramatic changes as she grew), until the stallion produced a foal out of a homozygous black mare that was chocolate with a flaxen mane and tail that could only have been a silver dapple. My Mother owns the stallion, and although we have encouraged her to test him for the silver gene to confirm our suspicions, she just hasn't gotten to it yet....

                                    Alliekat,
                                    There is a test for the silver gene..... I would LOVE you for to have her tested because the silver gene could not have come from her dam.... so if its there (which I strongly believe it is) that would confirm that it is coming from Mint. They do it here: http://www.animalgenetics.us/Silver.htm

                                    I'll see you at the show!
                                    ~~~The first step is admitting you have a problem.~~~
                                    ~~My name is Wendy, and I'm a horse-a-holic.~~

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                                    • #19
                                      It is sounding more like she is a silver buckskin
                                      ______________________________
                                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Hey Wendy and thank for posting. We are so excited about LuLu's first show. She is coming alond so nicely. I am definatly gonna send her sample out as I am just as curious as ever. Plus it would be neat to know when I go to bred her. Thanks for evry ones input. this is fun!!!
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