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Chestnut Question

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  • Chestnut Question

    I have my FIRST chestnut foal! OK, I've had chestnut pintos, but they've all progressed in color the same - the chestnut they were born with was pretty much the chestnut they matured with. Now I have a solid chestnut (with two black parents). He was born a regular red fuzzy chestnut. Now he's starting his moth-eaten foal shedding - and he looks almost black where he's shedding. Like two black eyes, and his legs look like a bay colt shedding out. Is this normal for a red head, or do I have a dark liver chestnut in the making?

    I have to say, he's adorable with his black eyes - looks like his Mom gave him a good one-two punch!

  • #2
    I've raised 3 liver foals, and from what I can remember (can't find "mothy" pics!) they first shed out to almost a chocolate color, which lightened to a normal liver as they grew winter coats. The regular chestnuts stayed pretty coppery/reddish all along.

    Mare with newborn foal who grew up to be liver like mama
    Another pic, nevermind the swollen ankles. (Filly wouldn't lay down on her own for the first couple days.)
    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
    ? Albert Einstein

    ~AJ~

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    • #3
      My fuzzy little redhead is in the moth eaten stage too and I have noticed that her hair is very very very dark. Not black, but very dark red. I am crossing my fingers for either a deep rich copper or liver. Momma is Black and Daddy is Bay. Daddy's sire was a bright red chestnut.
      Chambermaid to....
      Lilly
      Reggie

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      • #4
        As far as I understand, the colour of the parents does not influence the depth of chestnut in the foal - JB?

        Most chestnut foals moult out very dark in their first year. Not all of these will end up liver, most will end up a 'normal' shade of chestnut.

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        • #5
          Most chestnut foals shed really really dark the first time.

          Most chestnut foals do not end up liver

          ______________________________
          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by Kerole View Post
            As far as I understand, the colour of the parents does not influence the depth of chestnut in the foal - JB?

            Most chestnut foals moult out very dark in their first year. Not all of these will end up liver, most will end up a 'normal' shade of chestnut.
            I also thought parent shading didn't have any bearing on foal shading. Chestnut is chestnut, it is either light or dark. Kind of like pinto - you either get it or you don't, but the number and size of spots has nothing to do w/ the parents spots (pattern).

            But the fact that most shed out dark is helpful - so this may not be a liver, just a normal chestnut shedding. My chestnut pinto foals all shedded normal chestnut, so I wasn't sure if this was unusual or not. I'll still hope for liver, hahaha, but either way, he's a fancy little man.

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            • #7
              Parent shading can have a lot to do with foal shading The best chances of liver come from breeding 2 livers Breeding 2 copper chestnuts together is most likely going to result in a copper chestnut.

              Certain palomino stallions are very prepotent for producing their own shade when a pali is produced (ie if they are very pale, the pali foals are usually very pale). But even if it's a really dark sooty pali, the chestnut foals are often very dark/sooty.
              ______________________________
              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by JB View Post
                Parent shading can have a lot to do with foal shading The best chances of liver come from breeding 2 livers Breeding 2 copper chestnuts together is most likely going to result in a copper chestnut.

                Certain palomino stallions are very prepotent for producing their own shade when a pali is produced (ie if they are very pale, the pali foals are usually very pale). But even if it's a really dark sooty pali, the chestnut foals are often very dark/sooty.
                Well, I'm starting with black parents, hahaha. I do know the stallion has several liver foals, so guess that is a good sign? OK, Pally - totally different topic - my one and only experience also this year, and I've got the lightest palomino I've ever seen - and a friend (with a foal by the same stallion) has the darkest I've ever seen - it looks chestnut! So we must have the outliers for that stallion. This has been a weird color year for me - normally I have black (or bay) or black and white.

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                • #9
                  Do you know the color/shade of the dam of those liver foals? If those mares were not liver, then you stand a better than average chance of getting liver here.

                  Got pics of the really dark pali? I found your light one, by my VERY favorite Saphiro He tends to produce the lighter end of the spectrum for his pali and buckskin foals, so not surprised you have a light one. I've only seen a few relatively dark palis by him, but can't even seem to find the dams
                  ______________________________
                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                  • #10
                    Yes, a good sign if the stallion has had liver foals. In TBs, Mr. Greeley was a liver chestnut, and is responsible for the liver foals I've known. El Corredor, a dark bay son of Mr. Greeley, carries the chestnut gene and has produced liver. The mare in my photo above is by Mr. Greeley, and her two chestnut foals were both liver (by dark bay Spring At Last). So in TBs, if you have a Mr. Greeley descendant, you've got a decent chance of getting liver vs. regular chestnut.
                    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
                    ? Albert Einstein

                    ~AJ~

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                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by JB View Post
                      Do you know the color/shade of the dam of those liver foals? If those mares were not liver, then you stand a better than average chance of getting liver here.

                      Got pics of the really dark pali? I found your light one, by my VERY favorite Saphiro He tends to produce the lighter end of the spectrum for his pali and buckskin foals, so not surprised you have a light one. I've only seen a few relatively dark palis by him, but can't even seem to find the dams
                      I think the dams were regular chestnuts, I'll check w the SO, she's always great to provide info and work with.

                      I don't have pics of the dark Pally - she is also by Saphiro, I'll try to remember to send you links when she posts some updated pics, the filly is just a week or so old now - so not yet really photogenic! Mine is the really light one - everyone was convinced he was cremello - I kept explaining it wasn't genetically possible. Plus (thank goodness) he has brown eyes

                      I had a buckskin by him a few years ago - also very light, and with amber eyes.

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