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When Is a Colt a 'Stallion Prospect'?

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  • When Is a Colt a 'Stallion Prospect'?

    This is something that has been on my mind for some time now.
    Every year approximately 50% of the foals born are colts, and some of them will go on to be stallions.

    I am wondering what criteria other breeders use to determine which of their colts deserve to stay intact.

    For me, the colt has to be a horse that I would want to breed to.

    Since he is just a baby, what we are looking at initially is performance pedigree and conformation.

    But with all the wellbred attractive youngsters, what sets 'the One' apart for you?
    A Fine Romance. April 1991 - June 2016. Loved forever.

  • #2
    For me it's easy. It's the one owned by someone else. Colts born under my ownership are gelded before weaning... There are so many nice stallions I don't feel the need to add to the equation. And they have better, happier lives as geldings.
    Not all who wander are lost.

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    • #3
      I come at this from a different perspective as I have a specific breed and my goal is to breed that breed for a specific purpose. I have to see perfect conformation, that look at me attitude though one that is obviously going to be manageable too (hard to tell admittedly at a really young age imo) and the movement is so key. Because the breed I have isn't considered to be purpose-bred I look for more/better ability to canter, possess elasticity of gaits and the ability to collect. If the colt doesn't show those traits well then making super geldings are where I'm at too. Having said all that I won't keep a colt intact if it doesn't meet the breed standard. I don't want anyone to ask, "what breed is that?" unless they've never seen or heard of it before, because again for me it's the breed first, purpose a very, very close second. Bloodlines are important but not a dilemma - I avoid certain ones so no geldings or fillies would be made from those either.
      Ranch of Last Resort

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Kinsella View Post
        For me it's easy. It's the one owned by someone else. Colts born under my ownership are gelded before weaning... There are so many nice stallions I don't feel the need to add to the equation. And they have better, happier lives as geldings.
        I second this. It seems to be breeders with big ego would love to be the "breeder" of this so-so stallion to build up his/her own ego. To me...who cares!! I could name one breeder, but wouldn't say who. Lips sealed.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by LuvLHDachshunds View Post
          I second this. It seems to be breeders with big ego would love to be the "breeder" of this so-so stallion to build up his/her own ego. To me...who cares!! I could name one breeder, but wouldn't say who. Lips sealed.
          I don't think it is necessarily big egos. It is an interest in breeding and adding to the gene pool for a better next generation. Stallions have to come from somewhere...

          Fred, I honestly think it is a numbers game more than anything else. History shows that not all great stallions where born with a glowing halo around them and in some cases where not appreciated till a couple of crops where on the ground. I do not believe it is case of the best of the best in the true sense of the numbers when they licence the young ones. Otherwise they would only licence and approve the top 10 prospects every year, but they licence and approve a ton of horses and let them weed themselves out. I think they toss out ones in the licencing that are "obvious" not the best quality but if someone believes enough in them, their is always sport and this does happen. So the short answer is, the more horses you leave as stallions till they prove themselves one way or another is actually better for the breed. By trying to choose "the" stallion by the time they are 1 or 2 you lose all the late bloomers and lines that really shine when they are mature, like the G-line. And I think this is becoming a bit of an issue with dressage, as they are picking huge moving young horses that may not make it to the UL, whereas the horse without the flash as a youngster but has the trainability and the ability to collect that is not immediately obvious. Jumping is a bit more apparent at a younger age.
          What do you think as a stallion owner?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by LuvLHDachshunds View Post
            I second this. It seems to be breeders with big ego would love to be the "breeder" of this so-so stallion to build up his/her own ego. To me...who cares!! I could name one breeder, but wouldn't say who. Lips sealed.
            It's not easy to really offend me, but you managed it. I am very proud of the stallion I bred, just as I am proud of all the other Hanoverian breeders whose shoulders I stood on to produce him. It took a village.

            I am just as proud of his accomplishments after he was sold. I didn't get into sporthorse breeding to produce pasture ornaments, and seeing products of my program out there and performing is a huge relief, and quite honestly it is solace that all the heartbreak and years of work weren't for naught.
            "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin

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            • #7
              Bottom line for me is temperament--if they dont have the sort of manageable/sensible/trainable/rideable temperament that is easy to live with then they simply do not need to stay intact--it really has to be exceptional for me to want to run a colt on for the time investment it takes to know what you really have
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              • #8
                Pedigree. Conformation. Phenotype. Genotype. Charisma. Trainability. Intelligence. Charm. and so on
                Anne
                -------
                "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist

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                • #9
                  I would rely heavily on what the registry inspection team has to say about the colts they are inspecting. They see so many and have such a great eye...so much experience.

                  Sometimes they will make a point to tell the owner, he "might" make a stallion prospect and if he is developing that direction to bring him back as a 2 or 3 yr. old for reinspection and/or licensing. If he doesn't cut the mustard, then that is that.

                  This was the case with Argosy when he was sold out of Germany as a weanling. This was also the case of one of his GOV premium sons from his first foal crop in the U.S. at his foal inpection (who was later approved by the ISR).

                  OTOH, Boleem was approved later in life after a performance career.

                  In any case, for the most part, I would rely heavily on those with more expert eyes and experience that most of us (even seasoned) really have to decide which colt to keep on the "watch list", as Fairview put it.

                  But beyond that assessment? Yes, temperament and trainability is key regardless.
                  www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
                  "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
                  Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

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                  • #10
                    I want temperament, trainability, type and movement as well as bloodlines in my breed of choice (Connemara). That being said, I will purchase a youngster that I feel might have potential and wait and see how he matures. I have bought 4 that way, three are either gelded or on the list to be gelded. Only one is being kept intact past 2 (my recent Irish import)... and even then, if he doesn't turn out to have the *right stuff*, he too will get the snip.
                    I feel lucky I have the space and patience to let them mature a little before making the gelding choice. One I left till 3 to get gelded, but he still made a fantastic gelding and would not have been a great stallion at the end of it.

                    The most recent that was gelded was my 7 year old who has 4 seasons of foals on the ground with his last couple coming this year. I liked what he produced, but none WOWED me... he himself is a simply AWESOME pony to ride, handle and train... but just not enough to let him keep his testicles
                    www.muskokalakesconnemaras.com
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                    • #11
                      I haven't bred a stallion yet, but it seems to me that the stallion-prospect ones don't lead to questionning whether they are "it" or not. They should stand out, IMO, no?
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                      • #12
                        I think lots of potential stallion prospects are gelded when the breeders are not at all interested in standing a stallion. There is a limited market to sell stallions, so it needs to be a breeder who is open to standing and developing a stallion. A lot of potential stallions make GREAT geldings, and great geldings are much easier to sell.

                        For me to consider a stallion prospect it must have an IMPECCABLE maternal family...generations of proven producers and very marketable bloodlines. Sire must be proven and marketable. Individual must be a striking individual with huge presence, exceptional conformation and athleticims, and something that would compliment my mares, and that many others would also want to breed to.
                        www.vandenbrink.ca

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                        • #13
                          When is a colt named stallion prospect ?

                          Well an interesting question.
                          The first answer that came to my mind - when some idiot of big ego wants to be important.

                          I myself would never call a colt stallion prosepect: first of all I never know what becomes out of it (o.k prospect may say that) and secondly I do not feel experienced enough to be able to judge and Name it.

                          I have also the Feeling that the owrd is overused. I do not really react to it when People say I have a stallion prospect in my banr.

                          And do not understand me wrong - as someone already said I am very proud that I bred a horse that was licensed - never the less I did not advertised or called him stallion prospect.

                          And a colt is name stallion prospect if he is of a certain breed where the registry does that kind of evaluation and naming. e.g. as part of their foal Shows and or Branding.

                          by the way - the Expression stallion prosepect sort of falls into the same category as FEI prospect to me.
                          I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
                          www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
                          2017: March: Filly by Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - SPS Prince Thatch
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by alexandra View Post
                            When is a colt named stallion prospect ?

                            Well an interesting question.
                            The first answer that came to my mind - when some idiot of big ego wants to be important.

                            I myself would never call a colt stallion prosepect: first of all I never know what becomes out of it (o.k prospect may say that) and secondly I do not feel experienced enough to be able to judge and Name it.

                            I have also the Feeling that the owrd is overused. I do not really react to it when People say I have a stallion prospect in my banr.

                            And do not understand me wrong - as someone already said I am very proud that I bred a horse that was licensed - never the less I did not advertised or called him stallion prospect.

                            And a colt is name stallion prospect if he is of a certain breed where the registry does that kind of evaluation and naming. e.g. as part of their foal Shows and or Branding.

                            by the way - the Expression stallion prosepect sort of falls into the same category as FEI prospect to me.
                            I think the term has lost it's impact.
                            30 years ago it meant something: you had a stellar pedigree to start with, top and bottom, and at the inspection the judges thought highly of the critter.
                            That at a time when you really REALLY had to have a good justification to keep him intact for three years through stallion testing.

                            Now, it has balls, it's a prospect.....

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                            • #15
                              For me, never. Jewels are removed as soon as they descend and the vet gives the all clear!

                              My trainer used to (still does) have people bring their babies to him. Most say they are interested in keeping them in tact and "seeing" what happens. He always told (tells) them: unless you have a good bankroll and have the money to get them out in front of people, don't keep the balls. He'd be a fantastic gelding and a mediocre stallion.
                              Come to the dark side, we have cookies

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                              • #16
                                When the very first person sees the foal born, and it is made know the foal is a colt, that is when he is declared a stallion prospect.

                                I want trainability, temperament, soundness, conformation, and everything vandenbrink says in her/his post, and also total WOW factor.

                                I didn't say one thing about color either. Color does not make a stallion.

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                                • #17
                                  When Is a Colt a 'Stallion Prospect'?

                                  When the inspectors say he is ?
                                  ... _. ._ .._. .._

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by LuvLHDachshunds View Post
                                    I second this. It seems to be breeders with big ego would love to be the "breeder" of this so-so stallion to build up his/her own ego. To me...who cares!! I could name one breeder, but wouldn't say who. Lips sealed.
                                    I wonder if you and I are thinking about the same person - LOL!

                                    OTOH, lots of people think their cute colts are stallion prospects - warmbloods for sale has 25 ads containing the words "stallion prospect" - including one for a 1/2 Friesian, 1/4 Hanoverian, 1/8 Arabian, and 1/8 Saddlebred colt (but he is a pinto, so of course he is a stallion prospect!); several other ads for colts who are apparently considered stallion prospects because they are "homozygous pintos"; another ad with multiple misspellings of the name of the well known WB sire; and several ads for colts sired by WB stallions out of ISH mares (I didn't think any registry approved stallions from that type of cross - or does ISH?).

                                    As for "when the inspector says it is" - I know of several examples where the breeder asked the inspector, "Do you think he could be a stallion prospect?", and the inspector shrugged and say, "Well, maybe." And next thing you know, said breeder is advertising the colt as a genuine stallion prospect, and telling people the inspectors said it was. Uh, since when did "maybe" mean the same thing as "definitely!"?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by DownYonder View Post
                                      I wonder if you and I are thinking about the same person - LOL!

                                      OTOH, lots of people think their cute colts are stallion prospects - warmbloods for sale has 25 ads containing the words "stallion prospect" - including one for a 1/2 Friesian, 1/4 Hanoverian, 1/8 Arabian, and 1/8 Saddlebred colt (but he is a pinto, so of course he is a stallion prospect!); several other ads for colts who are apparently considered stallion prospects because they are "homozygous pintos"; another ad with multiple misspellings of the name of the well known WB sire; and several ads for colts sired by WB stallions out of ISH mares (I didn't think any registry approved stallions from that type of cross - or does ISH?).

                                      As for "when the inspector says it is" - I know of several examples where the breeder asked the inspector, "Do you think he could be a stallion prospect?", and the inspector shrugged and say, "Well, maybe." And next thing you know, said breeder is advertising the colt as a genuine stallion prospect, and telling people the inspectors said it was. Uh, since when did "maybe" mean the same thing as "definitely!"?
                                      LOL! We are definitely on the same page! Same for FEI prospect!

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by DownYonder View Post
                                        several ads for colts sired by WB stallions out of ISH mares (I didn't think any registry approved stallions from that type of cross - or does ISH?).
                                        In the US, if the IDSH (ISH) is inspected and approved (RIDSH) her foal can be registered as an IDSH regardless of sire. Provided the colt is at least 1/8 ID, he can be inspected and approved RIDSH.

                                        I am with others. Nothing staying here remains in-tact, it is gelded if not sold before the new year.
                                        Last edited by horsetales; May. 20, 2013, 11:14 AM. Reason: clarity
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