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Color Experts: Champagne or Palomino Pinto?

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  • Color Experts: Champagne or Palomino Pinto?

    My husband just rescued a cute, skinny little horse yesterday. Apparently the lady has too many horses and can't feed them all, so she just gave this one away. "Biscuit" is supposedly 5 years old, QH cross. He's very sweet, quiet, and should make a nice kid's horse eventually.

    Biscuit is a very flashy pinto; at first I just thought he was a palomino, but his forelock and tail aren't white; they're golden. His mane is mostly white, but it does have golden streaks (where the underlying hair is colored, not white). And he has amber golden eyes, too. The skin around his eyes and nose is mottled pink (kinda like an Appy), as is under his tail. Is he champagne?

    What breeds are commonly champagne? Could he get this from the QH, or from the "cross?" His coat is quite shiny, despite being in such poor condition.

    Also, I'm thinking he is a tovero? He has white crossing the back (tobiano) but has jagged patches (overo?). Admittedly, I've never had a pinto so I'm new to this color stuff!


    ** Be warned, Biscuit is very thin in the pics. He's now getting free-choice orchardgrass hay, plus two flakes of alfalfa twice daily. We started giving him two pounds of high-fat grain, to build up slowly. We wormed him with ivermectin, and the vet was out this morning to do some bloodwork. The farrier is coming out next week.


    Biscuit left side
    Biscuit right side
    Right side close up
    Face
    Amber eye
    Muzzle
    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
    ? Albert Einstein

    ~AJ~

  • #2
    Champagne IMO
    Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
    http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/

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    • #3
      Not an expert but I'm going with champagne as well. We've had a few over the years, (AQHA, grade QH and pony). The color, eye color and mottled skin. And I'd say tobiano for pattern, I don't believe the shape of the markings (jagged) really matters, when looking at a overo/tovero/tobiano. He has "white over the back" and the traditional tobiano solid color head.

      I've seen champagne AQHA horses, Paints, ponies, Saddlebreds and Walkers. I'm sure there's other breeds that include it as well.

      He'll be really sharp looking once he gains some weight!
      The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done".

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      • #4
        plain ole palomino paint and a really pretty one once he gains some weight,
        Adoring fan of A Fine Romance
        Originally Posted by alicen:
        What serious breeder would think that a horse at that performance level is push button? Even so, that's still a lot of buttons to push.

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        • #5
          The Champagne gene is a recently discovered dominant gene that has the ability to dilute both black and red pigment. Champagne has visual characteristics that differ from cream, pearl and dun dilutions. Some common characteristics of a champagne horse are: pink skin, dark freckles especially around the eyes and on the muzzle, a shiny coat that is often slightly darker in the winter and eye color that will go through a number of color changes starting blue and evolving to a hazel or amber color. It is possible for a horse to have several dilution genes in which a combination of the dilutive affect will be seen. Champagne has been documented in the Quarter Horse, Tennessee Walker, American Saddlebred, Missouri Fox Trotter, Miniature Horses and several other breeds.
          Source: horsetesting.com
          come what may

          Rest in peace great mare, 1987-2013

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          • #6
            Champagne. I had a QH/TWH cross who was champagne.
            www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
            "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
            Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

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            • #7
              Originally posted by leilatigress View Post
              plain ole palomino paint and a really pretty one once he gains some weight,
              Disagree, sorry I totally agree he's champagne - gold champagne at that, which is champagne on chestnut.

              To be fair, they can look an awfully lot like palominos, but this guy's forelock, tail, and eyes give him away as champagne. The mottling can happen on single regular dilutes so that's not always a reliable indicator of champagne vs cream.

              http://www.ichregistry.com/gold.htm
              ______________________________
              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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              • #8
                Mine was also gold champagne (solid)...pretty!
                www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
                "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
                Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

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                • #9
                  Tovero champagne. Or tobiano/sabino champagne. The hind leg with the jagged top edge to is is classic sabino. The eye color is a dead diveaway for champagne. And the skin mottling/spotting is common with champagne. But cute as can be, even thin.

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                  • #10
                    You color people would find this amusing. I bought my mare as as 10 yr. old back in 1985. I really didn't know much about much back then...

                    At the time I boarded. When it was time to get her Coggins, the vet one year described her as dun, the next year as palomino, subsequent years buckskin. They couldn't really quite describe her. She was really completely "beige", amber eyes, faint freckles on her muzzle. Even her feet were beige. Not white, beige.

                    None of us knew anything about "champagne" as a unique color back then...at some point we all started calling her a "Dunamino" as a joke.

                    It was only until she was in her late 20's when a gal who came to work at my farm, who obviously was a color guru, told me she was a champagne gold. Babe died when she was 31 and I only discovered her real color for the last 5 years of her life.

                    Thanks, Nootka.
                    www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
                    "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
                    Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Another vote for Champagne. He's gonna be a cutie once he beefs up a little!
                      Life is short. Ride your best horse first.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sid View Post
                        You color people would find this amusing. I bought my mare as as 10 yr. old back in 1985. I really didn't know much about much back then...

                        At the time I boarded. When it was time to get her Coggins, the vet one year described her as dun, the next year as palomino, subsequent years buckskin. They couldn't really quite describe her. She was really completely "beige", amber eyes, faint freckles on her muzzle. Even her feet were beige. Not white, beige.

                        None of us knew anything about "champagne" as a unique color back then...at some point we all started calling her a "Dunamino" as a joke.

                        It was only until she was in her late 20's when a gal who came to work at my farm, who obviously was a color guru, told me she was a champagne gold. Babe died when she was 31 and I only discovered her real color for the last 5 years of her life.

                        Thanks, Nootka.

                        No problem sid! She was a sweety and very "classic" in color so it was easy

                        I agree with others that he is champagne. Tovero
                        Draumr Hesta Farm
                        "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
                        Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

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                        • #13
                          Champagne. Eye color is the key.

                          When the color part of the pinto is clean, it should have a shimmer to it. Metallic like an Akal Techi (sp oh please forgive me), but not as intense.

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