• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Stolen embryos?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    Originally posted by Ponytailponygirl
    You made me spit out my coffee!!! LMAO!! And I thought I was being discreet.
    Before I even read the thread, I had a pretty good idea of who you were talking about. But that's only because his life is so "out there" for the world to see via the person who is suing him.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by Ponytailponygirl
      He's not suing the mare owner. He's being sued by someone else.
      Then he's the DEFENDANT not the Plaintiff. Plaintiff brings the complaint.
      ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
      Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

      "Life is merrier with a terrier!"

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by Cranky Agnes View Post
        Before I even read the thread, I had a pretty good idea of who you were talking about. But that's only because his life is so "out there" for the world to see via the person who is suing him.
        Damn ... I must not be in the " know". Sucks to be under this rock
        Draumr Hesta Farm
        "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
        Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

        Comment


        • #24
          I wish everyone a nice day.
          Last edited by szipi; May. 27, 2016, 04:16 PM. Reason: update
          Andras
          http://www.prairiepinesfarm.com
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4SfHHhoc_8
          http://www.andrasszieberthtraining.blogspot.com

          Comment


          • #25
            I wish everyone a nice day.
            Last edited by szipi; May. 27, 2016, 04:18 PM. Reason: update
            Andras
            http://www.prairiepinesfarm.com
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4SfHHhoc_8
            http://www.andrasszieberthtraining.blogspot.com

            Comment


            • #26
              What is with all the mudslinging of late out of the blue on this message board? If the OP doesn't have a "dog in the fight" - what is the big deal and the axe being ground by her? Sounds more like a vendetta regarding someone else's business. Get a life!
              PennyG

              Comment


              • #27
                The OPs last comment? WTF was that point?
                Draumr Hesta Farm
                "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
                Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

                Comment


                • #28
                  I wish everyone a nice day.
                  Last edited by szipi; May. 27, 2016, 04:21 PM. Reason: update
                  Andras
                  http://www.prairiepinesfarm.com
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4SfHHhoc_8
                  http://www.andrasszieberthtraining.blogspot.com

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Ponytailponygirl
                    Make no mistake: Paula Estess has nothing to do with any horse, any embryos or any business deals. She has never owned a horse, let alone the horse in question.


                    Thank you Lord!
                    Why are you thanking the lord that your yourself have nothing to do with horses? Yet here you are on a horse BB.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Now that I have heard the "other side of the story", I take back my comments about the trainer. He took the mare on a 1-1/2 year breeding lease, and there were "no agreements or limitations on what type of breeding" he could do. So he bred her, re-bred her after she foaled, and harvested the embryo. I see no harm in that, and I suspect there are many breeders who would be tempted to do the same - esp. if the mare was on their payroll for 1-1/2 years, and doubly so if they had their own stallion(s) on the property (no stud fees to worry about losing if the mare doesn't catch or the recip loses the ET).

                      It does sound like a hot mess, but apparently not between the trainer and the MO, but rather between the trainer and a 3rd party. If she has done / is doing as he claims - i.e., trying to ruin his reputation and business - I don't blame him for taking legal action against her. It will be interesting to hear down the road how it all turns out.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        If the OP doesn't have a horse and doesn't know diddly about horses, why in God's name is she going to such lengths to involve herself in this? As I said -- get a life of YOUR OWN! The horse business doesn't need any more people like you.
                        PennyG

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Not sure if the OP has counsel, or is pro se… but when a litigant choses to be pro se, the court does not give them special consideration because they do not know what they are doing. Going to court is real life - "The Adult Version” with real consequences. Pro se litigants are held to the same standard as those who pass the bar. In every sense, you will be held accountable for what you do.

                          For example, the title of this tread is “Stolen Embryo?.” And there is this post
                          Originally posted by Ponytailponygirl
                          He's not suing the owner. He's suing someone else for being vocal about his "shady" practice of helping himself to embryos, regardless of the terms of the contract.
                          It is now very clear that Andras did not steal an embryo. Accusing some one of stealing - when in fact they did not - is defamatory on its face. Disseminating this false claim to a third party[ies], as in this instance where you have disseminated your false defamatory claim, in writing – here on COTH - is defamation per se, and in this instance, Andras (who is either a private person or a limited purpose public figure) would not have to prove malice to prevail against you. Not sure if the question mark will protect you, given the claim that there is a history here. You may find yourself on the receiving end of another nasty law suit. Might be time to re-think the claims you are making.

                          We all can get very angry at each other (it seems to happen daily on this forum ), but that does not mean we are on the right side of applicable law. Just saying…
                          Logres Farm on Facebook
                          http://logresfarmpintowarmbloods.com/
                          http://logresdobermans.com/

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Ponytailponygirl
                            I appreciate your thoughtful comment. However, I did NOT say WHO was being sued. Someone, as per usual couldn't keep their mouth shut.

                            Also, you're taking the explanation on face value. There are other mare owners who are upset because of this practice besides the one I referenced. One of them is the wife of a State Attorney. There is a history of baseless litigation here, which is why my Malicious Prosecution claim withstood dismissal, so far.
                            Also, you have to prove damages. How did I damage anyone's finances, when they are able to dump twice what they claim they make per year, on legal fees, in a pursuit against someone who is in foreclosure, in debt to the IRS for 70,000, and self employed? It doesn't make any sense. In the unlikely event a judgment would be ordered, there would be nothing to collect, ever.
                            My overarching point is, "you might want to re-think your goals here, and re-assess whether any of this is worth the risk." It's entirely up to you. But, it is clear that your statements are of or concerning Andras. Your opinion of how he spends money is entirely irrelevant to a judgment entered against you. I think that punitive damages would be problematic… here’s a bit of info from a simple Google search


                            Florida Arbitration Code and the Finality of Arbitration »
                            Defamation – Slander Per Se under Florida Law and Punitive Damages
                            Published April 3, 2012 | By Mark Schecter
                            Defamation is generally defined as the unprivileged publication of false statements which naturally and proximately result in injury to another. Wolfson v. Kirk, 273 So. 2d 774 (Fla. 4th DCA 1973). To establish a cause of action for defamation, a plaintiff must show: (1) That the defendant published a false statement about the plaintiff; (2) To a third party; and (3) That the falsity of the statement caused injury to the plaintiff. See Razner v. Wellington Regional Med. Ctr., Inc., 837 So. 2d 437 (Fla. 4th DCA 2002). Only those statements that are false rise to the level of defamation. Id. Also, statements of pure opinion are not actionable. Florida Med. Ctr., Inc. v. New York Post Co., Inc., 568 So. 2d 454 (Fla. 4th DCA 1990).
                            There are four categories of statements that constitute slander per se:
                            1. Imputing to another a criminal offense amounting to a felony;
                            2. Imputing to another a presently existing venereal disease or other loathsome and communicable disease;
                            3. Imputing to another, the other being a woman, acts of unchastity;
                            4. Imputing to another conduct, characteristics or a condition incompatible with the proper exercise of his lawful business, trade, profession, or office.
                            See Wolfson, 273 So. 2d at 777 (internal citations omitted).
                            In a slander per se action, “punitive damages may be awarded even though the amount of actual damages is neither found nor shown, for in such a case, the requirement of a showing of actual damages as a basis of an award for exemplary damages is satisfied by the presumption of injury which arises from a showing of libel or slander that is actionable per se.” Saunders Hardware Five and Ten, Inc. v. Low, 307 So. 2d 893 (Fla. 3d DCA 1974).
                            The application of the punitive damages rule above was recently made by the Fourth District Court of Appeal in Lawnwood Med. Ctr., Inc. v. Sadow, 43 So. 3d 710 (Fla. 4th DCA 2010), where a surgeon (Dr. Samuel H. Sadow) brought an action against a hospital for breach of contract and slander per se seeking compensatory damages for both claims and punitive damages for the slander per se action. In the trial court proceeding, the jury found the hospital liable on the breach of contract claim and fixed damages at $2,817,000, reduced to $1,517,000. In separate proceedings on the slander per se claim, the jury found Lawnwood liable for the slanders; that Lawnwood specifically intended to harm him by its per se slanderous statements; that, in fact, it had actually injured him by the statements; and that he suffered no compensatory damages from the slanders but that he was entitled to punitive damages of $5,000,000 from the hospital. Id. at 712. The Fourth District Court of Appeal, affirmed the punitive damages award, and set forth the following interesting discussion in its supporting opinion.
                            …[W]hen the claim is defamation per se, liability itself creates a conclusive legal presumption of loss or damage and is alone sufficient for the jury to consider punitive damages. […] To sum up, Florida's unusually high protection of personal reputation derives from the common consent of humankind and has ancient roots. It is highly valued by civilized people. Our state constitution and common law powerfully support it. This is a value as old as the Pentateuch and the Book of Exodus, and its command as clear as the Decalogue: “Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.” The personal interest in one's own good name and reputation surpasses economics, business practices or money. It is a fundamental part of personhood, of individual standing and one's sense of worth. In short, the wrongdoing underlying the punitive damages in this case has Florida law's most severe condemnation, its highest blameworthiness, its most deserving culpability. For slander per se, reprehensibility is at its highest.

                            Lawnwood, 43 So. 3d at 727-29, review denied, 36 So. 3d 84 (Fla. 2010), and cert. denied, 131 S. Ct. 905 (U.S. 2011) (footnotes omitted).
                            Logres Farm on Facebook
                            http://logresfarmpintowarmbloods.com/
                            http://logresdobermans.com/

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Ponytailponygirl
                              Again, this is an issue that I have researched extensively. I have NEVER given anyone a cause of action for defamation. It's not defamation if it's true. You have NO IDEA how much he fits the criteria for your above posted comment, and I have clear cut evidence, and witnesses, to prove it. But more importantly, I have nothing to lose, in part due to my opponent's emotional extortion, so what? Who cares? He's not even a citizen. What is he going to gain from this, other than the Streisand Effect? He's a professional victim...there's ALWAYS been someone "after him", since the day I met him. There has always been some crazed stalker. Same song, 34th verse.

                              To answer your question, is it worth the risk? What risk? Thanks to him, I have NOTHING and I mean NOTHING to lose. I could write a book about defamation law from memory, with Florida case law, so you don't need to waste your time copying and pasting what is permanently imprinted into my memory. I've been studying this subject extensively for a year and a half, but thank you for your information.

                              From what I have read, I think Abraham Lincoln Had It Right - “He who represents himself has a fool for a client”

                              But do as you please, no one can stop you. With access to a keyboard, a printer and the price of the filing fee, most anyone can sue anyone. Litigation will suck you into a black hole of misery, with no predictable outcome, becoming nothing more than a huge waste of time and resources. I think even you will admit that there is a convoluted subtext here that goes well beyond the claims you are making (none of which are now relevant to this forum). Your anger is readily apparent, as is your state of mind. And even you seem to recognize this is all a frustrating waste of time.

                              Your life is your own. It’s your choice how you spend your time and resources. Each day that you waste on this utter nonsense is a day you will never get back. Each and every moment you waste trying to get back at him is a moment not spent improving your situation in life (better education, better job skills, better personal life). Your future is in front of you, with whatever positive energy and effort you put out, to create something good for yourself. This other crap is the past, and pursing it will not bring one positive thing to your life.
                              Logres Farm on Facebook
                              http://logresfarmpintowarmbloods.com/
                              http://logresdobermans.com/

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                PTG, it sounds like you spend every waking moment going out of your way to make the lives of others miserable (from reading your posts in this one thread).

                                That is not a healthy way to live at all. Time to get a real life and move on.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X