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  • #21
    Originally posted by Home Again Farm View Post
    Some will want just that because of the coloring with the good mare, while others will steer clear of it because of the coloring.
    Agree with Home Again Farm.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by TrueColours View Post
      TTP - no! Sorry! Didnt mean it to come out that way against you and/or what you said at all. I actually LIKED your post!

      It just seems to be never ending - the comments that if you want pinto, or dilute, or grey or black with 4 stockings and a blaze you must not be a serious competitor and are buying for looks alone. SO wrong on so many counts

      Just like there are those who covet a beautiful unmarked seal brown dappled hunter, there are those who want colours. They want the movement and the temperament and the athletic ability and they have chosen to search and spend their money on a specific colour with specific markings. Doesnt make them any better or worse a rider than the next person for doing so ...



      Sorry. Would not touch Lauren Efford with a 10 foot pole or recommend her either. She lied through her teeth to me and 4 others, lied in writing, lied verbally and the end result was that the 5 offspring she sold had their registration papers yanked 2-3 years later. I lost about $40,000 - $50,000 compliments of Lauren Efford and Goldhope Farm plus untold thousands in future stud fee revenues. She still leaves a horrid taste in my mouth and anytime her name comes up I make it a point of telling how much money she screwed me out of and then hid behind her lawyer and wouldnt do a thing about it. Except try and sue the registry instead ...

      IMO and experience - stay far far away from Lauren Efford and whatever she is selling ...
      Again back to bashing. Done both tastefully and with tack I might add. Oh wait nvm.
      "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

      Comment


      • #23
        Alexandra, your inbox is full and I need to learn a new word ..... ORGS! Was heisst das?
        Siegi Belz
        www.stalleuropa.com
        2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
        Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by siegi b. View Post
          Alexandra, your inbox is full and I need to learn a new word ..... ORGS! Was heisst das?
          Ditto. What is ORGS?
          DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

          Comment


          • #25
            I love buckskins for some reason. I think it's because I rode an absolutely amazing buckskin jumper as a teen, she was the bomb. As such, I have a real interest in getting and/or breeding a buckskin jumper, but have a hard time finding any that are true jumper bred, and jumper talented. My focus is for UL jumpers first and foremost, but if I found that kind of talent in a golden wrapper, I would be ecstatic. So, I would say there are definitely people who would be interested based on color alone, and some who would be really interested in talent and great bloodlines coupled with color. Of course you will turn away some people, so it is more of a niche market, but the rarity of it should make for a valuable foal in my opnion. Good luck! Post pics if you breed a "golden child"
            Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. - William Jennings Bryan

            http://www.halcyon-hill.com

            Comment


            • #26
              honestly - i cant imagine someone not choosing a good horse because of color (unless there was something color related that affected health) ..... and any judge that didn't judge correctly because the horse was buckskin should have their judging card pulled. a well trained horse is a well trained horse. no matter what color.

              i will say that i do not really agree with color breeding if color is the main selection criteria while confo /atheltic ability fall further down the list.... other than that - too each their own!

              in fact right this minute my Wolkentanz I mare is happily cooking a baby for me.... and the color possibilities are apprx 40% brown 40% buckskin and a much smaller chance of palamino (the horrors!) chestnut and smokey black i cant wait and i honestly don't care one way or another what color i get as long as it is healthy!

              Comment


              • #27
                I firmly believe a good horse is a good horse no matter what the color is. Will the horse be considered differently by some as a result? Yes. Is this a positive or negative thing? I suppose it depends on how thick your skin is, and what your expectations are. I think it is ridiculous to penalize a horse for their color, but a "horse of a different color" cannot help but be remembered - either positively or negatively.

                On a personal note, I cannot stand appaloosas, especially those with the odd pink and black pigment on their noses - don't know why, just always gave me the creeps. Anyway, I used to ride THE ugliest colored appaloosa who had great conformation and I LOVED him. I won my very first show ribbon on him, and it was the most beautiful shade of green I had ever seen.

                I am hoping to begin fox hunting someday soon. I have noticed that some hunts don't like horses of any unusual color and some require the horse be mostly, if not all, TB blood. I am praying I find one that is more lenient, as I would hate to miss out on some sort of colored cob that will do it's job and save my butt!
                Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people.
                W. C. Fields

                Comment


                • #28
                  My ears pricked up when I read this thread. Alexandra, I am in a similar situation. I adore an unusual colour on a horse but I am also a serious breeder of horses capable of performing well at top level. The two things are often mutually exclusive.

                  I currently have a TB mare in foal to one of Gwen's Oldenburg cremellos, for a guaranteed palomino. Would I use one of my Hanoverian mares? Probably not. For starters it could not be H branded. Also the market in NZ for top, well-bred warmbloods is already quite limited so I'd be a bit of an idiot to reduce that market even further by making a foal in a colour that some don't like. It would be safer to try to make foals in colours that almost everyone enjoys. But the biggest reason is the bloodlines. no matter how well-bred the palomino/buckskin (etc) sire (or dam for that matter) is, the bloodlines of said horse is always compromised. So you end up with a coloured offspring that has average breeding. For this reason I would only ever use a homozygous coloured parent - if you're going to deflate your bloodlines in return for colour then you'd better be sure you get colour! An averagly bred offspring in a plain colour is not a desirable outcome!

                  That said, there will always be folk like myself, a closet golden horse lover, just dying for someone to produce a quality horse in this colour!

                  Please, Alexandra what stallion do you have in mind?

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Kerole View Post
                    But the biggest reason is the bloodlines. no matter how well-bred the palomino/buckskin (etc) sire (or dam for that matter) is, the bloodlines of said horse is always compromised.
                    Can you explain?
                    ______________________________
                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Major Trigger fantasy here...but...

                      Remember that there is palomino in infinite shades and tones and the same for buckskin. If what you love is a golden dappled palomino with flash and a white mane and tail or a buttermilk buckskin with black points those are the lucky shades...just like any color there are nearly black buckskins and palominos who are heavily shaded and there are nearly white palominos you can barely tell are palominos and every shade and tone in between. A dirty palomino can just flat not be such a pretty color. Buckskins can hide as brown. This color stuff is not so easy. PatO

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        JB - sorry to be ambiguous. I just meant that the coloured horse you choose to breed from (or to) will inevitably have less desirable bloodlines than many of the non-coloured options out there. If I choose to breed my mare to a coloured stallion I know the foal will not have as good bloodlines than if I had free choice. And because of this compromise, I want to be absolutely sure I get colour..

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Hmmm, ok. To some extent I can see that. But I think that is not always the case. There are some who I think are changing the game on that. But I guess too it depends on what "desirable" means to someone. Cream On Top Z is by Concorde and out of a Grannus line mare via Gran Corrado. Treliver Decanter is a really nice palomino doing well in Dressage with, IMHO, a very desirable pedigree. Goldmaker is a very nice stallion who will hopefully be proving himself as a good sire as well, but his first crop was only last year IIRC.

                          I DO think the pool is limited in terms of quality. But slowly it's getting there
                          ______________________________
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Alino Queen is a graded Danish WB palomino mare (Michellino X Alibi) she foaled one Old NA licensed stallion , multiple Kwpn-na first premium foals , one palomino son by Goodtimes exported to Europe being readied for stallion inspections. Last I remember she is in foal to Furstenball this year.

                            Flying colors had (he's been gelded w/frozen available) A pinto Voltaire son out of a permium RHSPI mare.

                            Crestline Farm stands pinto kwpn stallion Palladio
                            http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/palladio2

                            I'm sure I've left many many others out but there are plenty of "colored" sport horses with competitive pedigrees.
                            "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Flying Colors was GELDED? *sob*

                              I do agree there are (now) some very nice spotted stallions with very nice pedigrees. I took that whole issue to be about dilute stallions and those are not as numerous as the spotted boys.
                              ______________________________
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by JB View Post
                                Flying Colors was GELDED? *sob*

                                I do agree there are (now) some very nice spotted stallions with very nice pedigrees. I took that whole issue to be about dilute stallions and those are not as numerous as the spotted boys.
                                NO NO their Voltaire son Colaire was gelded , I think your thinking of Claim to Fame <3 who is still very much NOT gelded.
                                "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Kerole,

                                  I guess you bred your mare to Ikarus GF? His pedigree is not at all a bad one and he has full Oldenburg main book papers:
                                  http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?z=G...s+GF&x=26&y=14
                                  Gwendolyn
                                  http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com
                                  Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabians

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    I really do mean no disrespect in this. Especially to those who breed dilutes (Aurum, yes I used Ikarus, and yes his bloodlines are not bad at all).

                                    But here's the reality. I breed for upper level dressage potential. If they can show a nice shape over a jump or be beautiful enough to be a successful show horse then all the better. The sort of stallions I am choosing from are Sandro Hit, Furstenball, Quaterback, Florencio, etc. When I choose a coloured stallion, I am not getting this sort of quality in the bloodlines. The same goes for coloured mares. For instance I could get a golden Quaterback foal by using a dilute mare but that mare would not have this level of bloodlines either.

                                    A coloured mare with some notable great stallions in the second/third/fourth generations crossed with Quaterback is not the same as a Florencio/Weltmeyer/[insert top drawer dressage stallion] mare crossed with Quaterback.

                                    I hope I have not caused offense.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Pedigree...color

                                      If you are looking for upper level dressage potential you get there by looking at the horse. Pedigree can help you reduce the numbers of horses you look at but the horse is the horse. Upper level potential is some about the horse but there are many many horses who never find the trainer to take them higher. They weren't born or bred to fail they were simply not trained to succeed. A great pedigree gets you a breeding candidate more than it gets you a performance candidate. There are excellent performance horses I would not be excited to breed from...for that the pedigree is important...reproducibility and predictability increase with pedigree knowledge, but the horse is the horse. PatO

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Kerole View Post
                                        I really do mean no disrespect in this. Especially to those who breed dilutes (Aurum, yes I used Ikarus, and yes his bloodlines are not bad at all).

                                        But here's the reality. I breed for upper level dressage potential. If they can show a nice shape over a jump or be beautiful enough to be a successful show horse then all the better. The sort of stallions I am choosing from are Sandro Hit, Furstenball, Quaterback, Florencio, etc. When I choose a coloured stallion, I am not getting this sort of quality in the bloodlines. The same goes for coloured mares. For instance I could get a golden Quaterback foal by using a dilute mare but that mare would not have this level of bloodlines either.

                                        A coloured mare with some notable great stallions in the second/third/fourth generations crossed with Quaterback is not the same as a Florencio/Weltmeyer/[insert top drawer dressage stallion] mare crossed with Quaterback.

                                        I hope I have not caused offense.
                                        Again and perhaps the incidence is slight but there ARE people breeding for both. Going back to Goldhope as an example to follow the pedigree of her palomino mare is http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/alino+queen and that mare is bred to Furstenball this year. Perhaps she will get color perhaps not but either way the pedigree of Furstenball X Michellino is nothing to scoff at.


                                        "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          PatO - My foals are bred to be sold. The sort of people wanting to buy my foals/yearlings are are top level riders or those wishing to be a top level rider, and those looking for a future broodmare. These people want as much awesome blood up front as possible. I know and you know that there are many good performers out there with less than stellar pedigrees, but I would find it much much more difficult to market this type of foal than one with awesome bloodlines.

                                          Lynwood

                                          but either way the pedigree of Furstenball X Michellino is nothing to scoff at.
                                          It might not be scoff worthy but it is still a less desirable pedigree than Furstenball x Quaterback say, or Furstenball x Sandro Hit, or Furstenball x Belissimo M, or Furstenball x ... see what I'm trying to say? The pedigree of the golden mare might by nice enough but it is still not as arresting as the non-golden options that are available.

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