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What do you think of this cross??

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Twisted River View Post
    Unless I missed something, the above paragraph is your foal wishlist. It doesn't list type or blood, or necessarily upper level potential, so I'm not sure why you're getting replies that the resulting foal will be too heavy. I do agree with them that you might end up with a 15.2h draft type that will never make time at Intermediate, but if type isn't an important criteria, then who cares?
    Because she is currently running Prelim and moving up to Intermediate and she stated she wanted a replica of the mare. So that would be a foal with the potential to compete at the ULs of eventing. My concern with some of her crosses is that she will NOT get a replica of the mare but something much heavier.
    ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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    • #22
      Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
      Because she is currently running Prelim and moving up to Intermediate and she stated she wanted a replica of the mare. So that would be a foal with the potential to compete at the ULs of eventing. My concern with some of her crosses is that she will NOT get a replica of the mare but something much heavier.
      I think I just read her paragraph different. I very much agree with you, and other posters that a WB will be a huge gamble and she really should be looking at thoroughbred stallions.

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      • #23
        But what do you define as a "Warmblood"? For example, the one I suggested, Gatsby, is a BWP stallion, but he is also 58.79% TB, which would make the foal over 75% TB, he's not a heavy stallion, doesn't produce heavy, so...
        ______________________________
        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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        • #24
          First off, welcome to COTH!

          Parcival is a lovely stallion who is jumper bred and has lovely movement. It would be nice to see more foals by him, though of the small crop that I have seen there are some out of tb mares, warmblood mares and also a draft or draft cross mare (his first foal) so although not the same situation as your mare, it shows how he could cross with a thicker mare. If you breed to him, you will have to be prepared to deal with the risk of not knowing what type you will get. Parcival does have some big boys in his pedigree such as Voltaire who is known for throwing think. All that being said, I know you do more than just eventing, so would you still be happy if you got a chunky thing and did dressage or hunters, or something along those lines if people are concerned it would be too chunky for the stamina of eventing.

          If I were to suggest a tb stallion (I know you said you don't really want a tb, but it is just to show you a range) I would say A Fine Romance. He is only 16.2 1/2 but his quality is great! He has offspring competing in the jumpers, hunters and eventing. I know that you know some of the ones I am talking about in Ontario . I also like Sea Account

          A warmblood that I think could work for you is Sir Caletto. Sir Caletto is by Sandro (who produced sandro hit a well known dressage sire and sandro boy a good jumper, and others). Sir Caletto is modern enough that I think you could get away with it, he also can jump the moon! I have ridden a few by him and they give you a great athletic feeling.

          There are a few others that I am debating that might work for you, if I think that they will I'll comment again.

          Also, I don't know what you think of Gatsby but the foal would only be a bit over 50% tb if you went with the cross. I did hear from the lady that is riding him now (a friend) that he is super sweet and fun to ride, also quiet, quiet, quiet! I am not sure what he is registered as, and don't know if that is important to you also.
          www.SlateEquestrian.com

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          • #25
            I don't know if I can consider myself a "breeder" because I've only raised two foals, but I thought I would share my experience with you.

            I had a wonderful Tb/Han cross mare who could also do well in other disciplines besides eventing. She competed through Prelim and I wanted to replicate her temperment but with a little more "forward" so I chose TB stallions both times.

            The first foal was pretty much a carbon copy of the stallion in phenotype. I suspect he also inherited the stallions temperment, which I'm guessing is not like my mares. He is quirky on the ground, but an honest saint under saddle who will try his heart out for his rider. He is currently leased out as an equitation horse and actually placed in the HITS hunter prix finals in Saugerties NY last fall. Eventing wasn't his cup of tea, even though he was moderately successful.

            The second foal was probably a combo of the two parents. He was built a bit more like my mare, but then the stallion was also more heavily muscled that the first sire. He has a great attitude. I sold him as a four year old and he went on to do the hunters.

            I know that you stated that you want to stay away from TBs, and I understand because I had some past less than stellar experiences. But I have an OTTB now that is fantastic. They are out there, you just have to keep looking and be vigilant about the sires temperment. I think the right TB would add the work ethic, stamina and size that you are looking for as well as giving you less of a chance with the roll of the genetic dice.

            Another piece of advice-don't make your decision based on the stud fee. It is by far the smallest investment in your foal!
            http://thepitchforkchronicles.com

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            • Original Poster

              #26
              Originally posted by JB View Post
              But what do you define as a "Warmblood"? For example, the one I suggested, Gatsby, is a BWP stallion, but he is also 58.79% TB, which would make the foal over 75% TB, he's not a heavy stallion, doesn't produce heavy, so...
              JB, I've looked into Gatsby and got into contact with his owner a few years ago. The info I found was that he didn't have a show record, and is not registered - unless that has changed, Id rather find a stallion who has both those things, as I know they are out there.

              Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe my foal would only be 50%tb; from my mare it would get 25% tb, 25%conn and from Gatsby 25 (maybe 29)% tb and 25%bw... thats only 50% tb!

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              • #27
                Originally posted by ShortStory View Post
                Also, I don't know what you think of Gatsby but the foal would only be a bit over 50% tb if you went with the cross.
                Yes yes, you are right, my total miss on the math LOL Sorr about that.

                But, still, Gatsby is not a heavy horse and even his kids out of draft and draft cross mares are very much like him in substance. If he can consistently lighten up the 50% TB/draft mares then he's not going to let a TBxConnie mare produce something "stocky"

                I did hear from the lady that is riding him now (a friend) that he is super sweet and fun to ride, also quiet, quiet, quiet! I am not sure what he is registered as, and don't know if that is important to you also.
                He's approved BWP, and his foals are also eligible sBs
                ______________________________
                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by eclemins View Post
                  JB, I've looked into Gatsby and got into contact with his owner a few years ago. The info I found was that he didn't have a show record, and is not registered - unless that has changed, Id rather find a stallion who has both those things, as I know they are out there.
                  He IS registered - GOV. He's also approved BWP.

                  He doesn't have a show record, no. But here are my thoughts on that, for what it's worth I'd much, MUCH rather choose a stallion whose has kids out there who are doing what I want to do, than one who has only done what I want without proving time and time again his kids can do ot. Nothing worse, IMHO, than choosing a high performance stallion only to find out he doesn't pass that on To me, it doesn't matter what the stallion has done, because I'm not buying the stallion, I'm buying what he can produce Just my $.02

                  Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe my foal would only be 50%tb; from my mare it would get 25% tb, 25%conn and from Gatsby 25 (maybe 29)% tb and 25%bw... thats only 50% tb!
                  You're right, I totally flunked that math, sorry!
                  ______________________________
                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                  • #29
                    I will 2nd JB with Gatsby. He is a good producer and has been used with multiple IDSH mares including mine. He crosses very nice with the Irish line and mine sold in-utero to an eventer. Definitely refined and added height.

                    I would look for blood up close. Maybe Lotus T (Hol.) is 1/2 TB with nice eventing and jumper bloodlines http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/lotus+t

                    I also think a IDSH stallion could cross well. Jack of Hearts is a RID X WB (SF) cross if you want WB http://www.klearyfield.com/jackofhearts.html
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                    • #30
                      I would also ditto staying with something that is at least 1/2 TB..

                      Lotus T is very nice and seems to produce very tall offspring.

                      I love love Sea Accounts and AFR.. I also love Salute the Truth

                      I would also recommend the Anglo's or the Traks that have already been mentioned - Halimey, Tate etc..

                      Good luck as she is a very cute mare!
                      Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
                      " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
                      Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.

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                      • #31
                        Why not look up who the leading event sires are?

                        I can't claim to know much about eventing sires, but Aberjack looks pretty amazing, and the temperaments are reportedly outstanding:
                        http://www.minglewoodsporthorses.net.../Aberjack.aspx

                        Windfall: http://www.newspringfarm.com/windfall/

                        And this old thread may interest you:
                        http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/ar.../t-251639.html

                        God luck! Your mare is lovely!
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                        Dedicated to breeding Friesian Sporthorses
                        with world class pedigrees and sport suitability

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                        • #32
                          I will for sure third the suggestion of Gatsby. I can't say enough good things about this stallion! He is the easiest horse I have in the barn (and I have old retired horses!) always does exactly what is asked of him and most of all he is easy easy easy to ride! He is so quiet under saddle but still has so much power in all of his gaits that I know he can do anything you ask. This horse is a complete saint!
                          From what it sounds like, he is passing these traits onto his babies and I would be thrilled to have any of his babies in my barn any day!
                          He will be out showing this year in the hunters and we are really excited!

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                          • #33
                            Just thought I'd jump in on the Holsteiner suggestion. I like Lotus T a lot, but L lines can produce a very thick horse. Even though Lotus T is said to refine, the Landgraf can come in heavy even in the 3rd and 4th generations. Two of mine turned out that way: one doesn't look like his sire at all (except for coloring), but is an absolute replica of Landgraf in spite of being out of a mare with a lot of blood.
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                            • #34
                              What about Formula One? What is he throwing? being a 3/4 TB..
                              Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
                              " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
                              Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.

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                              • #35
                                Hi Em

                                What about Sir Wanabi....I know a few people who have 2 and 3 year olds by him and just rave about the personality. Producing nice hunters and dressage.

                                http://www.sirwanabi.com/about-sir-wanabi/
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                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by SonoraStables View Post
                                  I will for sure third the suggestion of Gatsby. I can't say enough good things about this stallion! He is the easiest horse I have in the barn (and I have old retired horses!) always does exactly what is asked of him and most of all he is easy easy easy to ride! He is so quiet under saddle but still has so much power in all of his gaits that I know he can do anything you ask. This horse is a complete saint!
                                  From what it sounds like, he is passing these traits onto his babies and I would be thrilled to have any of his babies in my barn any day!
                                  He will be out showing this year in the hunters and we are really excited!
                                  Is that you Alicia? *waives*
                                  ______________________________
                                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                                  • #37
                                    Yes it is

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by eclemins View Post
                                      JB, I've looked into Gatsby and got into contact with his owner a few years ago. The info I found was that he didn't have a show record, and is not registered - unless that has changed, Id rather find a stallion who has both those things, as I know they are out there.

                                      Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe my foal would only be 50%tb; from my mare it would get 25% tb, 25%conn and from Gatsby 25 (maybe 29)% tb and 25%bw... thats only 50% tb!
                                      Hello! I can assure you Gatsby was reg at birth and is approved with RPSI, OLD IRS, CSHA, BWP...list goes on! He has not been ACTIVATED for a couple years which is what I'm guessing you mean. He WILL be activated shortly (payments have been made forms have been filled!). He completed his 70 stallion test (and passed) where he got a severe injury and finished the test regardless. Gatsby has competed in Dressage, proved he could do eventing in the 70 day test AND will be going the Hunters this summer with Alicia Daley.

                                      Gatsby has nothing else to prove and most stallions don't even do what he has done! Gatsby offspring are winning in eventing, dressage, hunter and jumper rings all over North America. His offspring are quiet, safe, athletic and brave. He's had many top scoring foals. TOP BWP FOAL INSPECTED 2 YEARS IN A ROW!!
                                      The biggest challenge for Gatsby has been marketing. He's had none. I've been slowly getting together pictures and video of his older offspring. Its been so much fun to connect with the mare owners/offspring owners and hear how much they love their Gatsby babies It makes my heart fly Also for the number of people who have bred back to Gatsby. Its incredible. His fans LOVE him (as JB can testifie!)

                                      Please check out his website for new offspring pictures!

                                      www.gatsbystallion.com

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                                      • #39
                                        "To me, it doesn't matter what the stallion has done, because I'm not buying the stallion, I'm buying what he can produce."


                                        FWIW Hunter (by "the" successful event sire xx stallion heraldik) does actually have offsrping competing successsfully in eventing.

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                                        • #40
                                          But I believe Hunter is only available frozen, which is usually a deal breaker for a first time breeder.

                                          And whilst I am a huge fan of Windfall, it is not a secret, and his owner will confirm, that they are generally not the easiest horses in the barn. Talented without a doubt though. His (Windfall's) owner encouraged me to use Halimey Go instead, who is a kind and gentle soul himself and passes that on (he's also over 75% blood BTW).
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