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WB registries that will accept PHR papers - update: some discrepencies?

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  • WB registries that will accept PHR papers - update: some discrepencies?

    I am looking at this awesome 2yo filly... Checks every box thus far. However they never registered her although everything is a go to do so.

    She has fantastic lines for sport and it shows. One of my big regrets with my broodmare is that I didn't get her inspections out of the way when she was younger (she has developed non hereditary vision issues, she goes in September but I am sure her scores would have been better and she would have moved out more before the vision loss) and told myself I wanted to get any mares inspected as early as possible just in case I decide to go that route.

    It will cost me $800 some dollars to do the JC registration. Honestly that is what I am leaning towards doing, I would rather not worry about it. However I remember there were a few registries that accepted PHR papers and wanted to know what those were.

    Also if you were in my shoes (and as I mentioned this filly, so far, seems to be all that. She would still need to prove herself however signs point towards a future as an eventing broodmare, her sire also sired a Rolex horse and I love her dam line too) what would you do? Is the JC paperwork as important as I think it is or is PHR perfectly fine?
    Last edited by magicteetango; Apr. 16, 2013, 09:05 PM.
  • Original Poster

    Well Old/ISR doesn't and I can't seem to find that on the RPSI website... Thinking JC is my best choice for sure! I probably should have just hit up Google to begin with!


    • #3
      Id just do the JC paperwork and be done with it. Offers you more options as far as breeding goes.
      Different Times Equestrian Ventures at Hidden Spring Ranch


      • #4
        Ditto on getting her JC registered. That's what I did when I bought one of my mares as an unregistered 2-yr-old. I considered it an investment for me and "insurance" for her--in that she would produce registrable foals when (if) bred to stallions of various breeds. IMO, it was money well-spent.


        • Original Poster

          Oh I would get her registered no matter what, I am annoyed that it will be $600 more than November. Don't know why they wouldn't have gotten her registered.

          I know TBs conceived via AI who aren't approved by a QB registry register via the PHR. I was hoping it was a valid second option but doesn't appear it is for me at least.

          Oh well... Drop in the bucket in the long run!


          • #6
            Will her price reflect this additional cost to you and are you sure all the paperwork is in place to register? (For JC do you need stallion owner certificate?)

            One of the top jumper breeders located in California registers via the PHR.
            I am thinking it might be the way to go as getting dinged here and there for fees (registration, approvals inspections etc.) gets a bit much (I am getting old I think) and it is hard to stay in any one book if you have a xx mare. Foals out of xx mares/xx damlines have less value and will she even be approved to go into a main mare book is still unknown even if you have JC papers. I think the PHR is only $125 for all (even including dna kit I think?)

            If she is an eventer and will have eventer produce I am not sure the eventers will care. Mainly I would think you need to be able to have dna "registered" in the case it might ever be an issue and be able to verify age (for Young Horse competitions) --which the PHR will do for you.

            (Maybe it is a drop in the bucket but at this point I think every penny counts with horses since any profit margin is slim if you are lucky and if you are not they run through a fence ,et and never amount to anything...)
            (I think I have an 'evolving' view point on the PHR-the older I get the more acceptable an avenue it lloks to me.)
            Last edited by omare; Apr. 10, 2013, 04:41 PM. Reason: edited to add more


            • Original Poster

              Looking at how well balanced and well built she looked as a yearling, I would have a hard time not seeing her get approved. To be honest if they did not approve her I am not sure how I would feel about breeding her. Now granted in 5-7 years my confidence level as a breeder may be much further along and I may not worry as much?

              They say paperwork is all in order for it. I sure hope so otherwise I am likely not interested sadly. She is priced well for her age and being unraced but I do plan on making an offer (not an insulting one) due to the extra $$ I now need to put out.

              And yes... $800 isn't exactly a drop in the bucket really, with all the other fees I will incur if she does wind up being broodmare quality (I have rejected two thus far that I owned or leased, I am so looking for something quite particular with the potential to produce for the ULs). However if I do not do it by the end of the year and later go "Hey, I want that JC registration" it is something like $2,200. Which is nuts. I googled Jockey Club amnesty, no dice, so I don't think I will have another chance.

              If PHR were accepted by the various stud books I would much prefer. Just so annoying to pay $600 more because she is... Oh... 5 months past the dead line? I hate stuff like that, drives me nuts. But not the JC's fault. And in the great scheme of things I would prefer to be able to take her to whatever stud book I would want and not have a hang up. With my mare I am now limited to who does just the triangle and who will make exceptions if they require liberty work. I do not have the cajones or stupidity to ask, for instance, the AHHA to waive liberty and jump... Especially as they're known for being particular. Which sucks, the mare is exceptional IMO (and other breeders have agreed). I don't want any hang ups with the next one.


              • #8
                In my opinion, a TB mare needs her JC papers, if you can get them. You are not likely to be her last owner & it will make her more marketable - and it will also make her foals more marketable.

                But call the jockey club & see if THEY see any blocks to getting her registered. They are nice about talking to people & you want to know what they think, too. It could change your decision.

                Good luck.
                Hidden Echo Farm, Carlisle, PA -- home of JC palomino sire Canadian Kid (1990 - 2013) & AQHA sire Lark's Favorite, son of Rugged Lark.


                • Original Poster

                  They called the JC and she is registered, and a year older than the listing had stated. My only qualm is this mare looks quite chestnut to me but equineline states she is a gray/roan. Obviously she could have white hairs I cannot see in the distance, she just better be who they say she is! Anyone think these are red flags or would you not be concerned?

                  Got new pictures yesterday, hoping to go see her ASAP. Very nice looking filly and I have been after one by her sire for quite some time.


                  • #10
                    The Jockey Club does DNA verification.

                    You could make the sale contingent on that.

                    You may have to replace lost papers and find out if you need a transfer from last owner on the papers.


                    Get your questions answered before you buy the horse.


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by magicteetango View Post
                      They called the JC and she is registered, and a year older than the listing had stated. My only qualm is this mare looks quite chestnut to me but equineline states she is a gray/roan. Obviously she could have white hairs I cannot see in the distance, she just better be who they say she is! Anyone think these are red flags or would you not be concerned?

                      Got new pictures yesterday, hoping to go see her ASAP. Very nice looking filly and I have been after one by her sire for quite some time.
                      Concerning, but does not have to mean she's not who they say she is. How old is she? My grey filly was VERY dark all winter--to the point I regularly mistook her for the black horse in the field. She was three in March.

                      Can you perhaps ask the Jockey Club to give you the markings on the papers for comparison?


                      • Original Poster

                        She will be three in April. That is what I thought as well, my fingers are crossed everything is right. And great idea about the markings Simkie.

                        I will make sure everything is straight before I buy... I am just so hopeful about this filly I would hate to walk away, I can't wait to show her in the FEH classes this summer! See... I am already making plans, cart before horse!

                        I will call the JC tomorrow about the markings and ask about DNA typing as well.


                        • #13
                          Did they advertise her as a two year old? Or as a yearling? Another possibility would be that the filly you're looking at is a younger sister to the registered grey filly. If they had her listed as a two year old, perhaps not understanding that her official birthday is January 1, I would be less worried about that possibility than if they listed her as a yearling.

                          At these ages, at least it's usually pretty easy to accurately age the horse from the mouth, so it should be a no brainer to determine if her age matches the registered horse...


                          • Original Poster

                            She was listed on CANTER as a yearling coming two in December. I asked them if she was two or three after looking up her name and they said she would be three April 25th. So it could be a mix up... Or a full sister. Whoever listed her could have gotten it confused or perhaps a barn worker held her and gave the info?


                            • #15
                              I didn't know CANTER listed yearlings. That is awfully young to be a failed or retired race horse already. If she is registered doesn't that solve your problems however?
                              McDowell Racing Stables

                              Home Away From Home


                              • Original Poster

                                It does. I don't think she was ever trained, the impression I got. As long as this is the correct horse, yes it solves my problems... I just hope I am not being overly trusting since I like this filly so much, and the bloodlines behind her.


                                • #17
                                  Does she not come with her registration papers? If not the jockey club can give you the description off her papers and you can check the cowlicks.
                                  McDowell Racing Stables

                                  Home Away From Home


                                  • Original Poster

                                    Well they had said she wasn't registered but everything was in order to do so. Now they called the JC and she is, I need to verify that they have a copy or if I will need to file for duplicates. I am about to call the JC and verify the markings and whorls so I can match them to her if they don't have a copy.
                                    Last edited by magicteetango; Apr. 17, 2013, 11:20 AM.


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by magicteetango View Post
                                      Well they had said she wasn't registered but everything was in order to do som Now they called the JC and she is, I need to verify that they have a copy or if I will need to file for duplicates. I am about to call the JC and verify the markings and whorls so I can match them to her if they don't have a copy.
                                      I don't know how much I would trust JC markings recordings. I only say this because while my horse's tattoo matches the papers I received with him from the JC, the markings do not match him one bit whatsoever. He is a brown bay with low white markings on 3 feet (one is only 1/2 of the foot). His papers say he has white over one knee on the leg that has no white and the other markings are off as well. The face markings are accurate though..lol.
                                      Rhode Islands are red;
                                      North Hollands are blue.
                                      Sorry my thoroughbreds
                                      Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :


                                      • Original Poster

                                        Ohh don't tell me that! I sent them her photos and they are checking for me to see if she is the same filly. Her baby photos, he said, have a star and a disconnected stripe... Her current photos have no stripe although the star is as described. I am hoping against hope he says hey this is your filly!