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Opinions wanted on future sale potential - APHA vs ISH.

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  • Opinions wanted on future sale potential - APHA vs ISH.

    I know the title is vague, but I couldn't come up with a good thumbnail title!!
    Soooo. In today's WB mentality/market. Which of these theoretic foals would be the most marketable - pre-training??
    #1 Foal
    Sire: 16.3, stunning, dark brown, flashy, good moving, TB. Outstanding sport horse pedigree.
    Mare: 16.2, Reg. APHA, 85% dark brown/white tobiano. Hunter type and movement. Not peanut roller type. Could do any sport.
    Foal will be 1/2 TB and regular APHA eligible.

    #2 Foal
    Sire: 16.3, stunning, dark brown, flashy, good moving, TB. Outstanding sport horse pedigree.
    Mare: 16.2+, Irish Sport Horse (elig Pinto), bay/white tobiano. Could be hunter or event type.
    Foal will be 5/8 TB (**Correction)- Irish Sport Horse/? Pinto

    The two mares (now just fillies) are 1/2 sisters.
    I plan to keep both of these fillies. Will breed #1, Break/ride then sell or breed #2, but am wondering the possibilities of selling young APHA hunters vs. ISH youngsters.
    Any thoughts or advice?? Thanks.
    Last edited by crosscreeksh; Apr. 8, 2013, 07:54 PM. Reason: Change TB %)
    Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma

  • #2
    I think a lot will depend on your market. If you are in TX, say, probably APHA. If you are in VA, ISH. Where do your clients tend to find your horses and how far do they come?
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    • Original Poster

      We are in NE Oklahoma...moved here from Southern Pines, NC. I've never registered any of our "painted" sport horses with APHA because we don't particularly breed the "type" they want. Last year I sold a full sister to the #1 filly to a paint show person who registered her with APHA and is starting to show her in the Hunters. She also shows in the APAC (I think that's what it's called - Open Shows that APHA gives credit for.) The buyer drove all the way here from Iowa and paid a very generous price, plus all the late registration fees. The three other riding age horses I sold last year, one went to Virginia, one to Wisconsin and the other to California. I sell almost no horses to the local area. My question was really if the people looking for a fancy looking Irish Sport Horse would be as apt to buy a baby as the APHA folks who can start showing at a much earlier age.
      Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma


      • #4
        Sounds like mare 1 would be better and give a better chance for selling earlier, especially if a sibling is already doing well showing. My ISH are mixed results, but eventer bred have trended to sell later - 2-4yrs and ideally many eventers prefer started
        Epona Farm
        Irish Draughts and Irish Draught Sport horses

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        • Original Poster

          Thanks horsetales...that was the info I was looking for. I was thinking that the APHA people would buy younger and unbroken (a major issue as I age out!!) The eventers are "learning", I think, to buy quality sport bred horses, but want them older and ready to go on.
          Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma


          • #6
            I think if you are breeding Paints for the hunter jumper classes it might not be very different. The market wants started prospects. That said we breed IDSH so I was surprised that the 2011 crop of IDSH(by an RID sire) sold up here(MN) as weanlings and yearlings...they were mostly pretty friendly chestnut fillies(dressage and eventing homes). The fillies with a lot of white sold first and the least white last but they were sold in 5k(a variety of dams TB,WB,Appy) range with basic pictures and movement videos. From the same crop there is a very special black bay filly at 7 k but she was not sold as a yearling though people made offers in the 5k range that were refused. Even as the best of the lot people wanted only in the low price range and wouldn't pay more for her as a weanling/yearling. They were all well conformed good movers to be all purpose dressage, eventing, jumping. The dark filly is show ring hunter type and taller. I had thought when setting up the program that the offspring would sell as started 3,4,5 yos in fact the majority(6 of 8) sold as weanlings and yearlings...the exceptions are the top filly and a gelding who was very gawky as an adolecent. Part of the process was selecting a stallion who had very good temperaments(easy) for amateurs, correct conformation, attractive growth, and 3 good gaits...to produce solid correct sport horses. We are not producing for the Olympics or showring hunters deliberately but of 20 foals we get 2 to 4 who are competitive with upper level foals or who have that something special that makes people go crazy(leopard appaloosa Friesian cross with exceptional movement). Maybe obvious but for the top foals of a year you have actually to work harder to get the higher price and get them to the right home where they will shine. We also breed Friesian crosses and Friesian crosses with size and color sell as foals pretty universally. If the customer produces a nice foal and the foal is in nice condition and ready to start or started the farm will help sell. So it is incentive to use the stallions with a good mare and keep the foal in good shape without blemishes. Here the price is kept lower to get them sold early as home raised youngstock can really be insured. Once they are sold they have an insurable value. Hangin on to a special foal to get the better price means risking injury and getting nothing but perhaps a future broodmare. Now that we are producing hunter type foals we are working on seeing if where the youngstock are seen might make a difference in the price we can get. Constant learning. PatO


            • Original Poster

              Thanks for THAT info Pat. It sort of surprises me. I didn't think the ISH buyers were looking at the "diapered crowd"!! We have several ISH at different ages with TB content varying from 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 TB. We've gelded our 1/2 TB - 1/2 RID, ISH stud by Touch of the Blues (he'll be my next riding/hunt horse), but plan to keep several homebred ISH fillies. Two by Seattle Blues and one out of an Irish Rover mare by our painted TB stallion, Jagged Illusion. We are breeding for the more TB oriented disciplines, but are totally pleased with the ISH's that look and move like TB's, but with the Irish Draught personalities!!
              What stallion are you using now?? I know you had bred to two that have passed away.
              Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma


              • #8
                We are using Beeston Laird Class 1(RID). Our first foal is very nice and is Beeston Laird RID/Hangon Johnny RID/TB mare whose name escapes me, Jag was her call name though...ironic yes? We have 8-9 more coming. When we first started we had the RIDSH stallion Alainn Shawn for a year who is a The Irish Rover(RID) son from a TB mare. We could not sell breedings to an RIDSH stallion then or at least not him. Perhaps he was too small at 16.1 but he was dynamic and black. He was hotter than we want to produce and he produced heat. His offspring would have been upper level eventers. Just couldn't make the customers understand why to use him. Maybe now after having IDs in the area for longer they will see and then know what a 1/4 ID has to offer. We have a little more upper level eventing in our area than your region but not much more. The 1/2 ID is a more all purpose horse and such an easy cross to live with and manage for mid level riders and a family horses. The Hangon Johnny's are just about a known commodity and people very much like the sons and daughters they know about so we are climbing the hill of recognition. PatO


                • Original Poster

                  I loved the Alainn Shawn horse (I didn't realize he was by The Irish Rover), but I wanted to "buy" a black ISH colt...not try to breed for one....I'd have gotten a bay filly instead!! We love Seattle Blues to death, but located in "Cowboy Country, Ok."...and this economy, there just wasn't any good reason to keep two stallions. I've always been very successful breeding a nice Sport Horse TB stallion to the 1/2 or 3/4 TB, ISH or even Clyde/TB mares. We have several outstanding, ISH mares right now. We have a fabulous new TB stallion (had him for a year and a half, but didn't choose to breed him last year) and he will be a fantastic sire crossed on the ISH/TB mares. He is very well bred, 16.3, dark brown (probably HZ black, but all our mares are dark brown/bay or black anyway) with a pretty blaze and 4 high white stockings ...and kind, sane, well mannered, great mover!!! I DO love my chrome!! People in this area looking for a big, gentle, riding horse are not going to buy a youngster or pay any kind of money, so I aim at the higher level competitors and usually sell far away from this area.
                  Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma