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How do I go about buying a prospect directly from a breeder?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by S A McKee View Post
    Breeders tend to price their sales horses at what it's cost them to produce the horse.
    This is certainly not true much of the time. Many breeders have to sell horses, and they have to sell for what the market is, or they will soon be in trouble.
    Patty
    www.rivervalefarm.com
    Follow us on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/River...ref=ts&fref=ts

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    • #22
      And another thought...costs of producing youngsters vary enormously across the country. Boarding vs. having your own farm. Buying your hay (our biggest yearly expense) vs. being able to produce your own. Local feed costs vs. costs in the "high rent" areas of the country. Owning your own stallion vs. stud fees/shipping, insemination, vet costs. Some of us are more realistic about what we "need" to sell youngsters for. Even the special ones!! That doesn't make us ignorant to the value of a really nice baby, though!!!
      www.crosscreeksporthorses.com
      Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #23
        Originally posted by horsetales View Post
        Have you looked at Lone tree Farm http://www.lonetreefarm.net/
        Their stallion is a of 4 RID to event at UL. They have a number of sport horses as well as knowing other breeders who have youngstock by them. In the past, there prices hve been very reasonable. I know some of his stock has shown in the FEH and his older ones are just getting going.
        I'll take a peek.

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        • #24
          If you have looked at ottbs, first remember that they are usually available because they failed at the purpose they were bred for, i.e. racing. Shopping with breeders who have purpose-bred for your discipline makes sense in many ways, particularly breeding for long term soundness as well as versatile athletic ability.
          Anne
          -------
          "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist

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          • #25
            Look at this guy posted at Last Chance Corral:

            http://www.lastchancecorral.org/hors...es/765-cabaret

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by not again View Post
              If you have looked at ottbs, first remember that they are usually available because they failed at the purpose they were bred for, i.e. racing. Shopping with breeders who have purpose-bred for your discipline makes sense in many ways, particularly breeding for long term soundness as well as versatile athletic ability.
              Another thing buyers of OTTB's fail to consider (and I LOVE TB's) is the difference between buying a car off a used car lot with no "real" history and buying "new" from a dealership. We who breed for sport know the full history of a horse and have started (or not) the horse with sport in mind...not just racing. I see OTTB's with disclosed race career ending injuries priced at pretty high figures. The Sport Bred TB's (or WB's) are/should have a lot lower mileage and abuse on their bodies. Just saying....
              www.crosscreeksporthorses.com
              Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma

              Comment


              • #27
                There is a new canter cutie that was just posted over in the eventing forum, he's not in Cali but he looks solid, well built only 5 and he has stood up to 50 starts.

                http://canterusa.org/index.php?optio...ngs&Itemid=284
                Last edited by HorseKrazy; Apr. 10, 2013, 01:15 PM. Reason: Spelling!

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                • #28
                  Here is a beautiful filly and a really nice mover in California:

                  http://www.bayequest.info/b001/item_...XblaM.facebook
                  Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                  http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                  http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by ahf View Post
                    I understand the OP's frustration. Three vettings equals a LOT of disappointment.

                    Here's something to consider when looking at the price differences. When you are looking at OTTB, the price they are offered at represents the RESIDUAL value. Not the initial value. It's the value left over once the initial value as a racehorse is exhausted.

                    Purpose bred sporthorses are being offered at their initial value. That value has a trajectory.... in-utero to foal to unbroke youngster, to started under saddle.
                    perfectly worded
                    Providence Farm
                    http://providencefarmpintos.blogspot.com/

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                    • #30
                      Yes, you can only sell your "product" for what the market will pay. However, if the market will not even bear the basic cost of production then it is a complete money losing scenario. And yes, breeders are not making money breeding but most will sell for at least what it costs them to produce the horse. Unless of course they need to decrease the herd or have some other financial pressure.

                      Originally posted by NoDQhere View Post
                      This is certainly not true much of the time. Many breeders have to sell horses, and they have to sell for what the market is, or they will soon be in trouble.
                      Read about my time at the Hannoveraner Verband Breeders Courses:
                      http://blumefarm.com/hannoveranercourse2011.html
                      http://blumefarm.com/hannoveranercourse2012.html

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I'm really sorry to hear about your situation with the previous horses. All of the advice given is very helpful. As someone suggested, you may want to go with a nontraditional breed, if you can find one that possesses the traits that you are looking for in your price range.

                        I would encourage you to think about a young horse (weanling or yearling) or in-inutero foal, if you feel that you are able to raise a young one. There are many exciting perks to it, but, as several have stated, you have no guarantee on it developing into exactly what you are looking for. (Of course, there are never any guarantees, even with a well-trained horse.) What can help take some of the guesswork out of it is to see photos of/get info on siblings of the cross you are looking at to see how consistent the conformation, movement, temperament, etc. is with them.

                        While there are lots of good people out there buying and selling horses, I personally encourage people to buy directly from the breeders. That way, the buyer has a much better chance of knowing the full history of the horse, training, and positives/negatives about them (assuming you are buying from a reputable breeder).

                        Good luck!
                        Mary/New Horizons Haflinger Sport Horses
                        Standing Stellar TVR, 2013 N.A. Stallion Testing/lifetime licensed WE, RPSI, AWS, AHR
                        www.newhorizonshaflingers.com

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          OP...just what IS your price range??? It is very expensive, risky and time consuming and discouraging to start a "riding horse" prospect as a weanling or yearling. Maybe you are just looking in the wrong places. There ARE sound OTTB's out there if you look or better yet, get a trusted person who deals in these horses. There might be issues that you will have to live with if your price range is on the low side. My DH was an upper level TB race trainer for years and I got the benefit of his "inside info" on many very nice TB's. Most were free or very cheap...and sound. There can't be THAT high a demand for OTTB's!! Good luck with your search.
                          www.crosscreeksporthorses.com
                          Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by horsetales View Post
                            Have you looked at Lone tree Farm http://www.lonetreefarm.net/
                            Their stallion is a of 4 RID to event at UL. They have a number of sport horses as well as knowing other breeders who have youngstock by them. In the past, there prices hve been very reasonable. I know some of his stock has shown in the FEH and his older ones are just getting going.
                            I second taking a look at LTF. When I was first looking their website turned me off a bit and they really don't have many shots of the youngsters. But I kept coming back to them and in the end decided to make the trip anyway. I'm very glad I did! They have some nice young stock and the prices are more reasonable than you will find down here. It's a drive for sure but I'm pretty far south and manage to easily make it there and back on a regular basis. Feel free to PM me if you have questions or need a vet rec in that area.

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                            • Original Poster

                              #34
                              Originally posted by crosscreeksh View Post
                              OP...just what IS your price range??? It is very expensive, risky and time consuming and discouraging to start a "riding horse" prospect as a weanling or yearling.
                              After my guy's vet bills and because I hadn't been saving/planning to buy a new horse, my budget was $4k. I've since spent most of that on bad vet checks. Yes, the lure of "sound" OTTBs was strong for me. I've seen it done before, so I assumed I could do it too. There are plenty of them in my area for free-$3k. Because I'm a pretty confident rider with some re-training experience, I figured I'd find a sound, quality OTTB, re-train, and have myself one hell of a deal. Unfortunately, I just wound up wasting most of my budget and breaking my heart three times. I really chose wisely too, it's not like I went out and vetted every pretty OTTB I could get my hands on. I picked well-built, lightly raced individuals that moved sound to the naked eye. Sigh. No cigar.

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                              • Original Poster

                                #35
                                Originally posted by crosscreeksh View Post
                                Most were free or very cheap...and sound. There can't be THAT high a demand for OTTB's!! Good luck with your search.
                                In my area there actually is a high demand for SOUND OTTBs. And, unfortunately, I think you put your finger on my problem...many people have better inside connections (like your trainer) and the good ones are snapped up before they ever officially hit the market. Neither of my trainers really have a pulse on the OTTB market. I've done some networking with local rescues and even a reputable track rider whose side hobby it is to re-home racers, but, again, all of the ones they send me have major red flags. I've been offered everything from bleeders, to bucked shins, to severe SI strain, to moderate arthritis, to pedal osteitis. All very nice horses. All very risky options.

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                                • #36
                                  ^^^ maybe look for one that has stood up to considerable starts and has remained sound (no gaps in races/training) instead of one with few starts? That way you can assume that they will hold up to the rigors of eventing? Idk. It's all kinda a crap shoot. Even the soundest horse can break a leg after you buy them. I think if you want to own horses you gotta roll with the punches. I know you have had a bad time of it lately and I'm very sorry for the loss of your last horse. dont give up, good luck in your search and keep your spirits up

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by HorseKrazy View Post
                                    ^^^ maybe look for one that has stood up to considerable starts and has remained sound (no gaps in races/training) instead of one with few starts? That way you can assume that they will hold up to the rigors of eventing? Idk. It's all kinda a crap shoot. Even the soundest horse can break a leg after you buy them. I think if you want to own horses you gotta roll with the punches. I know you have had a bad time of it lately and I'm very sorry for the loss of your last horse. dont give up, good luck in your search and keep your spirits up
                                    Good idea. My old trainer had an OTTB that came off the track at 8 after a gazillion races. He toed in, and wasn't conformationally perfect by any stretch. He's still sound as an 18 year old (went to second level in dressage and did some jumping periodically).
                                    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      [QUOTE=blame_the_champagne;6933031]In my area there actually is a high demand for SOUND OTTBs. And, unfortunately, I think you put your finger on my problem...many people have better inside connections (like your trainer) and the good ones are snapped up before they ever officially hit the market. Neither of my trainers really have a pulse on the OTTB market. I've done some networking with local rescues and even a reputable track rider whose side hobby it is to re-home racers, but, again, all of the ones they send me have major red flags. I've been offered everything from bleeders, to bucked shins, to severe SI strain, to moderate arthritis, to pedal osteitis. All very nice horses. All very risky options.[/QUOTE
                                      *****

                                      I don't know what area you are in but here in the southern mid-west (Oklahoma/Texas) there are TB sales once or twice a year. A few years ago we bought a 17.1H, three year old colt (been with a herd of geldings and didn't have ANY studdish thoughts), pretty to look at, clean legged, 10+ mover, sweet and well mannered, but unbroken for $500!! I had him bought for $300 until the auctioneer "ran" my bid up. He was a jewel!! Took to breaking like an old QH. We had bought him to breed, but ended up rethinking that, gelded him and sold him to a show hunter home for $7,000. Our gain...but....there are zillions of such horses in this part of the world and we are only 1/2 way to either coast!! Will send you a PM. NO, we do not have any suitable horse for sale, so this is NOT an ad or hustle!!!
                                      www.crosscreeksporthorses.com
                                      Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        It is about connections....but it isn't always race people. Talk to vets and other people and let them know you are looking. I have some sport bred (eventing bred) babies. They are ALL well outside you price range. It isn't worth it too me to sell them for a loss. But get to know some breeders and reach out...you never know if there is a young broodmare or other young stock that they want to cull quickly.


                                        I just got this coming 3 year old (june baby) TB filly....for free. Never raced or raced trained. Decently put together, decent pedigree and pretty. She is a bit feral but not too bad (I'd rather have that than spoiled!). I was told about her from my horses' dentist. Called the family that had her, saw her and loaded her up and took her home. Her family had a large farm and just wanted to reduce their horse numbers and knew that I would give her a good home/start. When those doors open...you have to jump through them!

                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix0Ff...ature=youtu.be


                                        I plan to start the filly later this summer and put some time and money into and sell her as a riding horse (probably next year or two). So put the word out....and hope you get lucky.

                                        But I also think some of the red flags in your OTTBs are a bit off based. MOST horses that bleed on the track will not be any issue even as an UL eventer. MOST OTTBs have some issues coming right from the track....you do have to take a risk. It is why many are cheap. Given time, many of their issues can be managed or fixed...but there is risk. But the key is having a better feel for what risks are better ones too take....not finding one with no risks.
                                        ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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                                        • #40
                                          ^^^^ what I wouldn't give for that pasture out in my neck of the woods in California! I was excited to find 4 acres n my price range and desired location!

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