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Young Horse Training Session with Scott Hassler

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  • #61
    What's needed is a breeder's coop that hires a young horse trainer from Germany. The east coast is certainly dense in breeders. Set up the co-op so that that the young horse trainer would be in (say) four areas of the east coast for three months in each area (minus a week in each area for vacation).

    Set it up the way the TB industry sets up stallions with a certain number of foals per breeder allowed for training. Or the way sports palaces sell seat licenses. Or universities sell season tickets to fans who make a big "donation" for the right to buy season tickets. What I'm thinking is that each breeder would 'buy" a license to send a certain number of foals to the trainer each year. The licenses could be bought and sold on the open market so if a breeder didn't have a foal that year, s/he could sell that year's license to a breeder who didn't buy a license but had a young horse that needed training. Same horse could go for several years, or different horses could go. Foal owner would also have the option of sending a rider.

    You'd have to work out how many licenses would fund the employee expenses of the trainer per year; said trainer would be an employee of the Co-op, so s/he would be relieved of the financial end of things. Salary? Negotiated? Co-op would set the qualifications and go looking to fill the slot. The money that the initial license sale brought in would go to pay the initial expenses and salary and a reserve. The co-op members would set fees and could either a) set members' fees lower than non-members', or b) have everyone pay the same for training and issue dividends at the end of the year. What would be required is the breeders committee, backed up by a contract and a hefty chunk of money up front for the licenses.

    Another option would be to set the initial license fee for each foal so high that members would could get free training, but each year's training license could be freely transferred. The TB stallion industry has many ways to use their syndicate breedings. That's why looking there for a model would make sense to me.

    If the need is great and the trainer is good, why wouldn't this work.

    The Barn Owners where the trainer works would also be compensated by the Co-op and would need to be co-op members.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire

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    • #62
      Here is what I was told regarding selection criteria for the YH training sessions:

      1 - experience/success of rider in previous years' YH program. This helps indicate if the rider has a good understanding of YH training and the YH program in general. For instance, they like to see a rider who finished well in national Y/H rankings in previous years.

      2 - have the horse/rider combo participated in the previous year's YH training sessions, and if so, did they indicate talent for the YH program?

      3 - they want a range of ages for the horses in the training sessions (i.e., some 4 y/o's, some 5 y/o's, some 6 y/o's.

      4 - whether the rider has submitted a letter of intent to compete in the national YH championships. Although the deadline for this isn't until May 15, some folks file it pretty early (it's available via USEF as early as Dec 1). They look at the pool of submitted letters of intent, and give strong consideration to those candidates based on horse and rider qualifications.

      I imagine Scott also has some personal preferences - i.e., has he worked with the rider before, and has she demonstrated a good understanding of YH training principles?

      All these are taken into consideration, and some of the selections can be a bit surprising. For instance, at a previous clinic, one of the horses was a young Saddlebred. The rider had finished well in previous YH national rankings with her WB gelding (now showing FEI), and she got selected for the clinic to fill the slot of another rider who was injured just before the clinic and couldn't ride. The fill-in rider was training the young SB for its owner, who competes at Intermediare on her Saddlebred mare and wanted another SB to bring along in dressage.

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      • #63
        OP, can't help you with your predicament and I'm very sorry cuz girl, you got it going on! But I just wanted to say cruising on your website, I LOVE the levitating baby!!!!!
        I LOVE my Chickens!

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        • Original Poster

          #64
          Hahahaha - Thanks Megaladon! I got a good chuckle from your post

          DY - I agree with everything that you said in your post, but it still seems very odd to me that they would make these selections without actually SEEING the young horses! Also, the selection criteria seem to be very rider-based. I know you need a good rider but I would think the most basic criteria would be the quality of the horse and then you build from there. The way they are doing seems to be with tunnel vision.
          Eliza
          www.foxwoodhanoverians.com

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          • #65
            1 - experience/success of rider in previous years' YH program. This helps indicate if the rider has a good understanding of YH training and the YH program in general. For instance, they like to see a rider who finished well in national Y/H rankings in previous years.

            2 - have the horse/rider combo participated in the previous year's YH training sessions, and if so, did they indicate talent for the YH program?
            Oh great! That's fair! The only ones who can go are the ones who have gone before and have been successful? How in the name of whatever can anyone else get a chance to learn? What if those riders who have gone before move on to, say, PSG to GP horses? With whom do you replace them when no one else can get the training? This is ridiculous!!!
            Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
            Now apparently completely invisible!

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            • #66
              I agree...giving preference to riders who have gone before is simply not a good selection process for choosing potential YH prospects. Essentially then if you have a nice young horse you will have to send them for training to these select few riders to even get them seen! Ugh, another layer of politics.
              Read about my time at the Hannoveraner Verband Breeders Courses:
              http://blumefarm.com/hannoveranercourse2011.html
              http://blumefarm.com/hannoveranercourse2012.html

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Tiki View Post
                Oh great! That's fair! The only ones who can go are the ones who have gone before and have been successful? How in the name of whatever can anyone else get a chance to learn? What if those riders who have gone before move on to, say, PSG to GP horses? With whom do you replace them when no one else can get the training? This is ridiculous!!!
                If they have "moved on" and no longer have a horse in the specified age group, they are not in the selection pool - and wouldn't have submitted an application for the YH training sessions.

                And the criteria I listed above are some of the things they take into consideration. I do not believe they are the ONLY criteria, because we had some riders at our YH clinic a few months ago that were new to the YH training program. For instance, we had several who had never been in a USEF training session before. They got selected because the horse/rider had good results in either YH classes or "standard" dressage classes. And there were other riders who had never done the YH training sessions but had finished well in national YH rankings in previous years. But there were also some riders who HAD previously been in the YH training sessions, and they were selected because they had demonstrated good talent for developing young horses. We actually had one rider who wanted to bring 3-4 horses, and she had demonstrated success training young horses, had done well in previous years in the national YH program, always had good quality horses, etc. But they only gave her one slot so they could fill the other slots with other horses/riders - some of whom (as mentioned) had never done the YH training sessions before. So there was a good mix of riders who HAD been in the training sessions before and riders who had NOT been in them before and NOT made the national rankings before.

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                • #68
                  But the fact still remains that if this current process and "Coach" were functioning correctly, the number of YH in the classes would be increasing significantly and more importantly the SCORES for the compeititons would be steadily moving upwards. Neither is happening. I know many people with YH who just give up on using the current process because the selection system is behind closed doors all the time. And how many trips to Europe does the Coach have to take to understand the system?? Shouldn't that person already be capable and knowledgeable to just get the job?
                  Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
                  "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by ise@ssl View Post
                    But the fact still remains that if this current process and "Coach" were functioning correctly, the number of YH in the classes would be increasing significantly and more importantly the SCORES for the compeititons would be steadily moving upwards. Neither is happening. I know many people with YH who just give up on using the current process because the selection system is behind closed doors all the time. And how many trips to Europe does the Coach have to take to understand the system?? Shouldn't that person already be capable and knowledgeable to just get the job?
                    Maybe folks who have a better candidate in mind need to lobby USEF to make a change. Have you discussed your concerns with Hallye Griffin? Or anyone else at USEF?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      DY - I'm not sure what your experience has been with the USEF. They seem to be a "closed house". Members can contact them and make suggestions but the process with these committees with people who have been on them for decades doesn't seem to be open to change.
                      Last edited by ise@ssl; Apr. 16, 2013, 09:56 AM.
                      Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
                      "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by ise@ssl View Post
                        DY - I'm not sure what your experience has been with the USEF. They seem to be a "closed house". Members can contact them and make suggestions but the process with these committees with people who have been on them for decades don't seem to be open to change.
                        Agreed... and the result over the past decade back this up.
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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by ise@ssl View Post
                          DY - I'm not sure what your experience has been with the USEF. They seem to be a "closed house". Members can contact them and make suggestions but the process with these committees with people who have been on them for decades doesn't seem to be open to change.
                          Oh, believe me - I have had my own share of problems with USEF over the years. But if you don't at least try addressing your concerns through official channels, then no one at USEF will know about them. I doubt they spend much time reading this forum.

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                          • #73
                            Wow. Just reading this thread. We have participated in these classes for the last five years and gone to the Championships the last four. They are fun classes for the right horse. Scott Hassler is not the problem. The judges are (-:

                            I had my Young Horse rider ride a four year old and receive a lecture on not giving the right canter aides. Only then to have her ride my six year old that became the East Coast Six Year Old Winner. Guess the rider DID know how to ride after all (-:

                            Anyway, after supporting this program for five years, I will not this year. The memo to send the money by April 30th or be out for the Championships turned me off. And I totally agree with Siegi's post. I go to Germany a few times for the past 10 years and know how these classes are judged. And if we expect to send horses to Germany to compete, we better darn well learn how to judge these classes.

                            You do not hear insulting comments in Germany. But here in the US, you better have your big boy pants on, as the judges are just plain insulting.
                            Nancy Holowesko
                            www.crosiadorefarm.com
                            Breeders of GOV Horses for Dressage

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Crosiadore View Post
                              Wow. Just reading this thread. We have participated in these classes for the last five years and gone to the Championships the last four. They are fun classes for the right horse. Scott Hassler is not the problem. The judges are (-:

                              I had my Young Horse rider ride a four year old and receive a lecture on not giving the right canter aides. Only then to have her ride my six year old that became the East Coast Six Year Old Winner. Guess the rider DID know how to ride after all (-:

                              Anyway, after supporting this program for five years, I will not this year. The memo to send the money by April 30th or be out for the Championships turned me off. And I totally agree with Siegi's post. I go to Germany a few times for the past 10 years and know how these classes are judged. And if we expect to send horses to Germany to compete, we better darn well learn how to judge these classes.

                              You do not hear insulting comments in Germany. But here in the US, you better have your big boy pants on, as the judges are just plain insulting.
                              You're spot on, Nancy. The judging in the YH classes is ridiculously inconsistent.

                              I Rode at YH Championships in 2010, and was SHOCKED at how many horses there were barely able to be ridden. Horses being led from the warmup to the ring by a lunge line (it was all of about 15 feet), bolting, bucking, etc IN the show ring, etc. It was absurd. The horse I was there with may not have flung his legs
                              Ike crazy, which is apparently what they were looking for, but at least he was calm, obedient and rideable.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Well you can make book on the fact that the judging is consistently ...inconsistent. It's like the Breed shows - huge differences in scoring and while we can certainly accept that can happen with the movement scores because it can vary on that day in that class with a youngster, the bigger issue is huge ranges in the conformation scores. Young horses don't change that much from one class to another.
                                The nasty comments by some of the judges should result in their being pulled from that position. Giving constructive criticism is what they are hired to do - not humiliate and demean riders or their horses. But it seems to be a big ego trip for many of the judges. And it's obviously not having a positive impact on the entire Young Horse program because we are NOT seeing a consistent expansion of horses that have scores on par with European counterparts.
                                Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
                                "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

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                                • #76
                                  So why don't they have more experienced judges judging these shows? Experienced as in that they've judged young horse classes in Germany/Holland ect?
                                  www.svhanoverians.com

                                  "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.

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                                  • #77
                                    to Ticofuzzy, the OP

                                    Originally posted by ticofuzzy View Post
                                    ...it still seems very odd to me that they would make these selections without actually SEEING the young horses! Also, the selection criteria seem to be very rider-based. I know you need a good rider but I would think the most basic criteria would be the quality of the horse and then you build from there.
                                    There's an article currently on Dressage News about the Young Horse program and I thought of you. Did you ever get a reply from USEF or Scott Hassler?

                                    The article says "Efforts to reach out by offering training sessions at strategic locations around the country where there are concentrations of young horses and that are open to everyone, including breeders, [Scott Hassler] said, “has been a big hit.”

                                    Where did you end up with this ?

                                    Link to the article http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=21376

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                                    • Original Poster

                                      #78
                                      I got no response from anyone....
                                      Eliza
                                      www.foxwoodhanoverians.com

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                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by ticofuzzy View Post
                                        I got no response from anyone....
                                        ^^^This makes me sad.
                                        www.sauconycreeksporthorses.com
                                        Dedicated to breeding Friesian Sporthorses
                                        with world class pedigrees and sport suitability

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                                        • #80
                                          I think I would email them again, and put BOTH their names/email addresses in there, so they know you have contacted both of them. I would express my disappointment at 1) not being selected, and 2) not getting a response to the previous email regarding the selection procedures. I might even say something like, "I am hoping to receive a reply by (pick a date - maybe in two weeks), otherwise I will try to get some answers elsewhere."

                                          Then, if I didn't get a response by the deadline, I would escalate by sending an email to the entire sport horse committee. I would make it very clear in the email that I was emailing ALL of them, and also explain that I have tried several times to get a reply from both Hallye and Scott, but neither one has responded. And I would put a "read receipt" on the email, so I know when they have opened it. If I STILL didn't get a response, I think I would be tempted to try to corner them in a public place - at a show, clinic, meeting, convention, etc. And yes, I know this would all very likely result in me being considered "persona non grata" by USEF.

                                          My guess is they don't have a real good reason for not picking you, other than they had more horses than they needed in that age group. But it would be nice if they would at least TELL you that.

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