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A Warning to FL buyers

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  • #41
    Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    Actually, he's perfectly right in protecting his client. Who made be completely innocent and may have purchased the horses with the belief that they were being sold by someone with the authority to sell them. And if she paid fair market value, she should not be attacked.
    You really think that "fair market value" for not one but TWO well-bred, fancy WB youngsters is $5k? In FL, no less? Really....?

    I get that you're trying to play devil's advocate, but seriously. I have a hard time believing that the buyer was really that ignorant.


    • #42
      Originally posted by Serendipity Farm Sporthorses View Post
      Removed by request of OP


      Interesting. It seems to me that the buyers are not at fault at all and should not even be mentioned in this scenario. If the husband took the horses with the permission of the wife, then he did not steal the horses. The fact that she used poor judgment in letting him handle the sale sounds like an in-house problem. The" fact" that he choose to sell them cheap (for whatever reason) should not be an issue to the actual sale. Buyers should no be held responsible for an in-house issue. The sale should be final and no issues should be connected to the horses
      I feel bad for the lady and hope that she is able to recoup her losses by making her husband responsible for the difference. But honestly if I give my horse, willingly, to a friend to sell for me and I don't get the money I want from the deal, it is in no way the buyers fault and the horse should remain free of claims. At best I may be able to hold my friend responsible for making a deal that was unethical to our original agreement.
      Last edited by stoicfish; Mar. 18, 2013, 10:08 PM.


      • #43
        Originally posted by stoicfish View Post
        It seems to me that the buyers are not at fault at all and should not even be mentioned in this scenario.
        I believe the buyers (or the fact that there are buyers since the buyers are not really mentioned past that) are mentioned is to let the general horse public know that if they are shopping for a horse and they see these horses for sale to make sure things have been settled regarding this issue before buying so they are not stuck in the middle of a legal battle.


        • #44
          Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
          I believe the buyers (or the fact that there are buyers since the buyers are not really mentioned past that) are mentioned is to let the general horse public know that if they are shopping for a horse and they see these horses for sale to make sure things have been settled regarding this issue before buying so they are not stuck in the middle of a legal battle.
          I would be interested to learn that the original owner could have any claim against the horses. That was my point, that the horses themselves should have a clear title and not be subject to any claims. They were sold, possibly at a undervalued price, but by a party that had permission to sell the horses regardless. I would be upset if I had paid for horses and someone on the internet was suggesting that the horses had claims against them. In other words, if the issue devalued my purchase or made it hard for me to sell them. Until it is through the courts and a decision is reached, the OP made have inadvertently harmed the buyers interest with no legal backing.


          • #45
            Originally posted by Heinz 57 View Post
            You really think that "fair market value" for not one but TWO well-bred, fancy WB youngsters is $5k? In FL, no less? Really....?

            I get that you're trying to play devil's advocate, but seriously. I have a hard time believing that the buyer was really that ignorant.
            One WB mare is for free over in SC right now. Imported, 4 yrs old, and owner is afraid of her. So yes, I think that the economy now means a lot of horses are free or very cheap.

            And I'm telling you as a trial lawyer for over 28 yrs and a federal law clerk before that, that there are 2 sides to any story. And determining which party has "clean hands" is one that requires hearing both sides of the story. If the husband had permission to sell the horses, and he sold them cheaply in this economy, then; the purchaser has a good position to keep the horses as a bono fide purchaser for value. And of course, it depends on what the judge in the divorce case ordered the parties to do, or not to do. And whether or not the wife in this issue has "clean hands."


            • Original Poster

              This issue in this case...is that the husband was conspiring to "Waste" assets prior to a divorce proceeding. as there is a text message from husband to another party that he is going to sell them so they are not subject to marital assets in a divorce...as in the state that they were married all pre marital assets. That is why the sale is being contested. A third party has already been involved in the sale. So the intent of this post is to warn others to do their homework prior to getting involved.

              In my OPINION the buyer is not completely stuck in the middle innocently. Quite possibly looking to get a good deal in a bad situation....maybe. If she had had absolutely no contact with the breeder/owner and only on the word of the husband, sure, but. They were in contact up until days before the actual sale...to the extent that she told the wife she was not interesting in purchasing them. In my OPINION, THAT tactic was well, interesting. and yes, there are time/date stamped PM's to verify...just in case the buyers lawyer is wondering.

              and, GOSH, if the true ownership is not decided until divorce court hearing? How long will that be

              If I where the buyer, I would be getting my money back from the husband and waiting things out until the court rules on this in regards to the divorce.. But, that is me. I would HATE to potentiality be stuck in limbo. From someone who HAS been through a divorce, they can get ugly and take years!
              Last edited by Serendipity Farm Sporthorses; Mar. 18, 2013, 03:17 PM.


              • #47
                These folks were married for a mere 8 months... and the wife puts husband in charge of selling community assets (or hers) for the highest price?

                Do I have it right?

                None of that looks smart to me.
                The armchair saddler
                Politically Pro-Cat


                • Original Poster

                  MVP, yes, likely in hind sight and unwise decision of the wife! But, one does not expect that a husband is looking to screw his wife out of her assets!

                  There is now lawyers and the legal system involved...so I doubt, at least in the immediate future that these horses will be sold off to another party. I have deleted my original post in effort to not stir any pots in coming to a resolution...


                  • #49
                    The woman can have her lawyer present an order to the judge, a temporary restraining order, TRO for short, to prevent any assets being sold. Especially those assets owned by either party BEFORE the marriage.

                    So there are ways to prevent assets being sold out cheaply out of spite. I presume the woman has a good divorce lawyer. We used to call the really good divorce lawyers "sharks" in Atlanta. Mean, but smart. And the judge can impose sanctions, such as civil contempt, against any party violating his order(s). But before there can be violations, there must be an order from the judge preventing what is allegedly going on in this scenario.

                    Boy, I had to sit through a lot of "rule nasties" as judges' called rule nisi on divorce cases, every week waiting to take pleas on criminal cases. i wouldn't touch a divorce case with a ten foot pole. My long time judge, many times divorced himself, had a voice stress analyzer under his bench to tell him who was lying. He wanted us to indict the divorce liars for perjury! We'd never had had time for murders and rapes and armed robberies if we tried perjury cases from all the divorce cases. I told him to just hook up an electric charge to the witness chair and shock liars when they testified falsely under oath.

                    So the woman here, the horse owner, needs to get her lawyer to get an order to prevent whatever is going on. It's not hard to do. If she has "clean hands." And if she has a good lawyer. There aren't that many good lawyers out there.


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
                      The woman can have her lawyer present an order to the judge, a temporary restraining order, TRO for short, to prevent any assets being sold. Especially those assets owned by either party BEFORE the marriage.
                      Yep. My parents (one bio, one step) just went through a nasty divorce, and they had to get one because she had slapped price tags on about $20k worth of his tools and was about to have the mother of all yard sales. I won't go into all the details, but horse trailers, a horse, tack, etc, was all involved, plus a big horse farm AND a construction company, and some of this was pre-marriage and some was post... Messy messy. But it prevented anyone from doing anything to any property, community or otherwise, until things were sorted out.
                      COTH's official mini-donk enabler

                      "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl


                      • #51
                        Ok... Married 8 months, assuming divorce March or married 8 months in March, that puts wedding around June/July 2012??? Horses go to Fl in August and wife isn't allowed to see them?? Even if the dates are off by a month or so give or take... In my opinion, that seems odd.
                        Fresh, Frozen & ISO Warmblood Breedings FB Group


                        • Original Poster

                          Yes, I have been through a divorce as well and know how nasty it can become!


                          • #53
                            I wonder what the status is on these horses? Any updates??


                            • Original Poster

                              well, an interesting turn of events....

                              Allegedly, the For Compliment colt was returned to the husbands. PLEASE BE AWARE,DO NOT BUY THIS HORSE FROM THE HUSBAND AS IT WILL BE SUBJECT TO THE SAME TERMS IN DIVORCE.

                              but, WTF??? return one and not the other??

                              Why would you want to be party to this?? Just do the right thing!

                              There are dealings in the horses business that a legal ally right and wrong and there are those that are simply morally right and wrong. I guess my midwest values don't jive with the south Florida values.
                              Last edited by Serendipity Farm Sporthorses; Mar. 19, 2013, 03:26 PM. Reason: took of name of husband to protect the wife as she fears for personal safety


                              • Original Poster

                                Last edited by Serendipity Farm Sporthorses; Mar. 19, 2013, 02:42 PM.


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by Serendipity Farm Sporthorses View Post
                                  yes, backinthesaddle. ODD. The guy she married was not a legal citizen and is has also received his green card in the marriage. Sweet deal, huh? get legal, get a brand new truck that wife purchases before the marriage and has to pay for while in his possession to not have a repo on her record, pay the insurance on a vehicle, and, get all of the wives furniture and 6 horses. Sweet deal?? The guy has SCUMBAG written all over him. INS has also been notified about this!

                                  THIS is why I am so adamant that these horses find their rightful owner!

                                  I don't often post her, other than...hows the weather type of posts But, I am ferociously protective of a friend.
                                  If you like this lady, you might not want to put her personal life and mistakes all over the internet. It usually backfires. Plus she did want to sell the horses, she just didn't get a good price. Not like she lost her favourite horse.
                                  This may be a very sympathetic story but it kind of comes across as a person that made some personal mistakes. I would not want this story on the internet if it was me. I would be embarrassed. Plus I would take responsibility for giving the horses to the wrong person to sell and not expect the buyers to correct the situation. Let alone use social media to coerce them into returning the horses.


                                  • Original Poster

                                    Stoicfish...you are correct...I deleted. please delete as well. My point being that although the circumstances seem really ODD there is more to the story than appears. Could certainly be a case of Who the F did I marry!

                                    You can certainly flame the wife in this particular case. I wish we had a crystal ball and could tell if your decisions in life were to work out well before be jumped in!


                                    • Original Poster

                                      From all angles....this situation is very sad...regardless of which side you are on.


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by Serendipity Farm Sporthorses View Post
                                        From all angles....this situation is very sad...regardless of which side you are on.
                                        And, I don't think she should be ashamed or embarrassed -- there are very few who haven't made mistakes or misjudged people in business & in our personal lives. There is a reason that there is a saying, "love is blind".

                                        I hope your friend has a good lawyer, gets rid of this awful guy, and gets on with her life -- a lot wiser after this debacle. I'm sure she is glad to have you as her friend and in her corner.
                                        Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing


                                        • Original Poster

                                          ldazians...thank you for your empathy! it has been a hard road and quite the roller coaster between knowing that they were sold off...and not knowing their where abouts and then locating them. and of course, going through the stress of a divorce. regardless of the circumstances around a marriage it is always tough to get out as it means you are giving up on a dream.

                                          almost tears of joy yesterday when the attorney told my friend he might advise his client to return them... but, not there yet.... Only one returned to the husband - which isn't necessarily a safe place for the horse. and, the other is still with the buyer.

                                          Once the legal system gets rolling on this, hopefully there will be more clarity.