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  • #21
    Stallion quality aside there is something NQR with this set up.

    1. Money from stud fees is STILL going to line Jill Burnell's pocket.
    2. Honouring JB's outstanding breedings is nice of Ashland but it also reduces the number of people seeking legal restitution, lessening the chance of JB ever being found guilty of her apalling business practices.
    3. The deal with Ashland may well be temporary. Once this all blows over, JB may get her stallions back. Then it's business as usual.

    Comment


    • #22
      I know no one has the answer to this, but...

      What if Ashland only gets the responsibility of fulfilling past stud fees that were never fulfilled? They have to do all the work and get no compensation? Other than a collection fee? Wonder if JB is going to give them at least part of the stud fees of already paid mare owners?

      It would be a bummer for Ashland if most of their breedings this year are just fulfilling past breedings....from their perspective.
      Read about my time at the Hannoveraner Verband Breeders Courses:
      http://blumefarm.com/hannoveranercourse2011.html
      http://blumefarm.com/hannoveranercourse2012.html

      Comment


      • #23
        I can't blame anyone defrauded for not throwing good money after bad when it comes to pursuing "justice" with JB.

        The court record speaks for itself on what a waste of legal fees and other money in trying to get restitution. If pursuing JB in court had been feasible for the amount of money lost and headaches -- MANY MANY owners would pursue it.

        There is a long string of defrauded businesses and mare owners -- just look at the CA court judgement posted in many places. Having a judgement, forking over the huge $$ to even get the judgement does not equal any kind of justice - in cash payment from JB or jail time spent by JB.

        CA legal system is broken -- small claims and even big claims appear to be hanging in the wind. And if the Mare Owner or business is out of state, just start adding more $$$ to the equation. It is not worth the trouble or lost money spent.

        Washing one's hands and walking away is clearly the best way forward for most people. Why add to one's grief?

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by Blume Farm View Post
          They have to do all the work and get no compensation? Other than a collection fee?
          If they have a breeding shed, lab and collect the stallions themselves the only hard cost is the semen extender and collection supplies, which are not very expensive. Their "time" is theirs to donate, if they so wish.
          www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
          "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
          Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by sid View Post
            If they have a breeding shed, lab and collect the stallions themselves the only hard cost is the semen extender and collection supplies, which are not very expensive. Their "time" is theirs to donate, if they so wish.
            Not exactly...there is the cost of the lease, feed, veterinary, housing of the stallion, breed association fees, etc. Technically what the stud fee is supposed to cover. The collection fee should cover time and supplies of the actual collection process.
            Read about my time at the Hannoveraner Verband Breeders Courses:
            http://blumefarm.com/hannoveranercourse2011.html
            http://blumefarm.com/hannoveranercourse2012.html

            Comment


            • #26
              Yes, my mistake. Of course that is true. Regardless, the cost of housing and feeding a stallion as popular these are, it would be miniscule compared to the breeding fees collected.
              www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
              "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
              Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by VLF Sporthorses View Post
                Horsenut93136.......it's probably not wise to make assumptions about what other people support unless you are prepared to back them up with some hard evidence. For those of you who obviously haven't been following all my post I will clarify my position for you. Purchased breedings paid in full in good faith... (paid in full 2010..... MONEY ALREADY GONE) Did not receive anything for my money. Horses now in Canada with Ashland Farm graciously honoring my contracts, end of story. How does any of this support animal abuse.
                Thanks for clarifying that for me VLF. But I personally would still not go promoting breeding to a stallion owned by someone who is accused of neglect. My own personal opinion.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by VLF Sporthorses View Post
                  Well here it goes, Yes I did not receive the semen first time out and am fully aware of the pages of information that a few of you have pointed out on this thread. I was burned by Jill Burnell in 2010 and thankfully Ashland Farm has agreed to fulfill not only my two contracts to Redwine and one to Aloha but as far as I know is looking after many other people in my position. (money which would have been forever lost)
                  The quality choice I have made to breed to these stallions still stands as they have not changed and I look forward to my foals of 2014 with enthusiasm.
                  Is Ashland charging you any booking fee, or are they keeping to the contract you had with Jill and just charging the collection fee that Jill had in her contract?

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    My problem with the OP is all it does is appear to sing the praises of these stallions as if everything was kosher now. Not much has changed except geography and hopefully an end to the rip offs but you would still be putting money in the pocket of the rip offer. I think it is wonderful that the contracts are finally being honored but that in no way makes this fiasco over.
                    McDowell Racing Stables

                    Home Away From Home

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Fact: Jill is still listed as the owner of these boys.
                      Fact: Jill is still involved in a lawsuit against MHS
                      fact: Ronda S is still listed in a lawsuit against MHD
                      fact: Jill has aquired more mares
                      Holly
                      www.ironhorsefrm.com
                      Oldenburg foals and young prospects
                      LIKE us on Facebook!

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I've wondered if this seemingly generous offer to fulfill the semen orders from previously defrauded semen purchasers isn't part of a plea bargain by JB to avoid some serious charges being organized by the Ca. States Atty. Remember they were requesting all defrauded people to contact them a while back.. And now that they've got her on the neglect charges JB saw what might be coming, yelled uncle and decided to deal and head off further charges.
                        "There is no fundamental difference between man and animals in their ability to feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery." - Charles Darwin

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Conversely, if Ashland is offering to honor outstanding contracts, but doing something like charging a booking fee now that he's at a new farm then it could be a nice little earner. Even if they honor 50 outstanding contracts, but request a booking fee from those people of $400 each...that's $20000 incoming just for completing a job that Jill was paid to do a year or more ago. I guess if they aren't charging a new booking fee then they are indeed either just being nice.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            she got more mares????????

                            Who is stupid enough to entrust their mares to her? Have they been living under a rock?

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Wow. This is rediculous. And now we see how the s**t pile gets deeper when people throw out their little "ideas" on how business is being done. Maybe Ashland has no plea from JB and has taken these stallions from a HORRBLE HOME due to their popularity with potential clients? Maybe Ashland is making a wise and honorable business decision by covering peoples lost breedings, WHEN THEY HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO DO SO? I am glad to see those boys here, I will be glad when my mare is confirmed in foal, i will be glad when a healthy foal is born, and I WILL BE EXSTATIC TO WATCH THAT FOAL SUCCEED. Dont worry about collection fees or no collection fees. Thats between Ashland and their clients. I would love to see JB lose Redwine, just like everyone else. Point of fact is, we can praise the stallions all we like. What we are NOT praising is JILL BURNELL. Stop judging and accusing potential clients of "animal Abuse" or lining JBs pockets. GUESS WHAT EVERYONE..SADLY JB OWNS REDWINE SO SHE WILL BE GETTING A CHUNK OF CASH IF SOMEONE BUYS HIM. ITS GOING TO HER ONE WAY OR ANOTHER..I can only PRAY that she uses the money wisely to right her wrongs and get the hell outta Dodge (without horses).

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Iluvmyhorse View Post
                                Wow. This is rediculous. And now we see how the s**t pile gets deeper when people throw out their little "ideas" on how business is being done. Maybe Ashland has no plea from JB and has taken these stallions from a HORRBLE HOME due to their popularity with potential clients? Maybe Ashland is making a wise and honorable business decision by covering peoples lost breedings, WHEN THEY HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO DO SO? I am glad to see those boys here, I will be glad when my mare is confirmed in foal, i will be glad when a healthy foal is born, and I WILL BE EXSTATIC TO WATCH THAT FOAL SUCCEED. Dont worry about collection fees or no collection fees. Thats between Ashland and their clients. I would love to see JB lose Redwine, just like everyone else. Point of fact is, we can praise the stallions all we like. What we are NOT praising is JILL BURNELL. Stop judging and accusing potential clients of "animal Abuse" or lining JBs pockets. GUESS WHAT EVERYONE..SADLY JB OWNS REDWINE SO SHE WILL BE GETTING A CHUNK OF CASH IF SOMEONE BUYS HIM. ITS GOING TO HER ONE WAY OR ANOTHER..I can only PRAY that she uses the money wisely to right her wrongs and get the hell outta Dodge (without horses).
                                Oh dear - well won't comment re spelling errors - but again, missing point I THINK.
                                Ashland is maybe not exactly "squeaky clean" shall I say
                                And as pointed out? Mare owners not serviced by JB legitimately should file breach of contract
                                Oh, but, wait - ASHLAND aka JB surrogate - now will FILL those orders - with what fees? Who go to whom?

                                Oh the stench is overwhelming
                                Not dissing the mare owners but really? Not pursue fraud, force repay of your fees and get ANOTHER stallion ????? God knows, there are many - urp - talented stallions to choose from !
                                "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



                                www.dontlookbackfarm.com

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Let me preface this by saying I am in full agreement that Jill Burnell was a criminal and mistreated/abused horses, defrauded people, etc. I'm not supporter, have never bred to one of her stallions, and have ZERO skin in the game other than as a bystander.

                                  But.....Wow. Some of the comments on this thread about people who have had unfulfilled breedings blow my mind from multiple standpoints. One, the idea that instead of people getting what they paid for, people should say, "NO, I don't want it now because the wrong person is giving it to me!" is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If there is an arrangement where they can get the breeding THEY PAID FOR, they should take it! If JB herself was providing it at the time they paid for it, they would have been paying collection fees, booking fees, whatever. So now you're saying that INSTEAD of taking what they ALREADY PAID FOR they should sue JB?!

                                  Well, unfortunately business law doesn't work that way. If you are offered what you paid for under the terms you paid for it, and don't accept it, you can't recover damages BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN DAMAGED. So if Ashland is serving as JB's agent to fulfill those contracts you can't sue JB for noncompliance because her agent is actually attempting to fulfill the contract on her behalf.

                                  So basically you're saying that if someone ALREADY PAID JB for the breeding, they should be a martyr for the cause and not accept what they are owed? I'm sorry, but that's one of the most asinine things I've ever read on this board. And believe me, I've read some pretty asinine things on this board!!!

                                  The OP should probably have posted, "Glad to have the stallions in the hands of people who will do right by mare owners and glad they are fulfilling past obligations, and THANK YOU."

                                  The idea that JB should never benefit from those stallions, while heartfelt, is totally not realistic. Those stallions had two potential ends- starving or otherwise dying under Jill's eventual lack of care due to lack of funds or else going to better hands. They were valuable stallions, so the only way they were going to end up somewhere better is if someone paid for them, unless of course they were starving or damaged/injured so badly they no longer had any value. Do you really wish that was what happened to those stallions instead of JB getting money in her pocket? Seriously, you think the end would have justified the means?

                                  Currently they are in a situation with good care and strong potential for never going back to JB. Do we wish Ashland already owned them? Yes. But we take what we can get.

                                  If mare owners want to breed to them, that's another ball of wax, but at some point you need to just accept the realities of the situation and give thanks for the small blessings.

                                  Clearly JB is an addict and will just keep hoarding horses. She has demonstrated she will connive in any way she wishes to get her hands on mares, including lying to the sellers or having others get mares on her behalf. Nothing we can do about that but keep educating people!

                                  In the meantime, we also need to accept that people who have losses are going to accept being compensated for those losses. People who have the opportunity to buy those stallions are going to try to market them so they can afford to buy them. And in order to get them permanently out of JB's hands, JB is going to want money for them. If you favor the stallions returning to JB, by all means, keep spewing pointless vitriol. But at least don't be stupid about the laws involved, and try to get a grip on reality for cripes sake!

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Oh my. Not spelling errors!! Must be that I dont spend all my time on coth working on my quick mistake free typing. shame. In the meantime this thread was posted to welcome the boys to Canada and show some excitement. Go take ur negativity back to the JB bashing thread and I will join in over there later

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Well said Spectrum

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by 3Dogs View Post

                                        Oh the stench is overwhelming
                                        Not dissing the mare owners but really? Not pursue fraud, force repay of your fees and get ANOTHER stallion ????? God knows, there are many - urp - talented stallions to choose from !
                                        Seriously, get some knowledge about business law. If an agent of the original contractor (agent=Ashland) tries to fulfill the contract by offering what was paid for (the breeding) then demanding a refund is not legally an option unless it was an option in the original contract. It isn't a fraud if the person is offered what they paid for and refuses it. So if they don't take Ashland's offer, they no longer have a claim against Jill because they are choosing to negate their breeding contract. While "making Jill pay" is a nice emotionally appealing idea, it isn't a valid legal option unless the person is unable to obtain fulfillment of the contract.
                                        Last edited by Spectrum; Mar. 16, 2013, 11:35 PM. Reason: Clarification

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Passion is a funny thing!!!

                                          Passion is a funny thing and sometimes I find it can blurr ones good sense and reason. It is interesting that the first thing that 3dogs mentions is the spelling errors in the last post....a personal attack with absolutely nothing to do with the issues at hand. Focus people....horses cost money long before any of this comes to the table. They cost to buy..cost to feed...cost to breed...vet, farrier......these mare owners have the right to decide to retrieve what is owed to them without the extra cost of legal fees. So don't judge, it sounds to me that the stallions were two of the lucky ones that landed in a good place. Let's pray the other horse do as well and if we can some how help them in the intrim let's do it.

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