• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Do we need to keep stallions around any longer than necessary???

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    This is the way it was done here, you keep one promising colt as a stallion, use him for several years, then start keeping his fillies to breed from, so you geld him and use another stallion next.

    The sorrel third from the left was started like all other colts and used as a ranch horse, although kept as a stallion until ten, then gelded and made a great ranch gelding.
    The palomino was one of his first foals and we had several of his daughters, that we also rode and then kept as broodmares.
    I think that each different part of the horse industry handles the breeding end as it fits them best.
    It does seem strange to have a very good stallion that, if you don't need him any more as a stallion, could not make a very nice gelding.
    Gelding a stallion is considered good animal husbandry, as it makes them easier to manage once they are not needed for breeding any more.
    Horses being horses, they don't stand there as geldings wishing they were still stallions:
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #22
      You are talking about stallions that are not being culled-- they are being replaced by their frozen. You have not said that the stallion was inferior. you are mixing apples and oranges.

      i dont know what Reed's article has to do with this discussion--that is about culling. Culling is about getting rid (however) of horses a breeder thinks is inferior. You are now judging people because they did not want to pay thousands to ship someones reject (whether poorly raise, bad luck, or thought out- who knows) because of that breeder's arbitary decision that they could not stay in ireland even though he considers himself an "international breeder?

      And I disagree people dont do it because the stallion is a pet--I hardly think VDL etc consder their stallions pets.

      But go ahead--whose to know.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by Fillabeana View Post
        If I were looking at a stallion to produce a child/amateur friendly (and thus very marketable) foal, I would consider it a huge plus if an amateur or child was showing the (former) stallion -as a gelding- successfully.
        Hilltop Cordini was such a horse and I was just as impressed with his after gelding career as his stallion career and happily used his frozen.

        I agree with others, gelding is one thing, euth. is another. Frozen is not very viable for many people without access to vets well trained in its use and can mean flushing large sums of money. I also have a mare who reacts to frozen. So there will always be a need for fresh.
        Epona Farm
        Irish Draughts and Irish Draught Sport horses

        Join us on Facebook

        Comment


        • #24
          Well, with AI, he does have a point, if you can freeze it, once you collect a lot you DON'T really NEED the stallion, and keeping a gelding around wouldn't save you on hay.

          But that's putting an awful lot of trust in nothing ever happening to the holding conditions (freezer comes unplugged, containers leak, who knows what else Murphy's Law could come up with), if you euthed the stud or gelded him, no replacements.
          Author Page
          Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
          Steampunk Sweethearts

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by SnicklefritzG View Post
            "I love hearing of 30+year old stallions still around! I think it shows good care and the horse is still enjoying life. "


            I went to the KY horse park a number of years ago and got to see Cigar and John Henry along with a few other famous stallions. Even the ones who were getting on in years still looked absolutely fabulous. It's a testament to their athletic ability and good care that they could look so good at such an age.
            John Henry was most assuredly *not* a famous stallion....

            And Cigar was sterile....
            "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

            ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post
              John Henry was most assuredly *not* a famous stallion....

              And Cigar was sterile....
              Nor is Funny Cide and many of the other residents. Old Friends would be a better example of a place that shows off retired stallions to the public.
              McDowell Racing Stables

              Home Away From Home

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                Nor is Funny Cide and many of the other residents. Old Friends would be a better example of a place that shows off retired stallions to the public.
                The point of mentioning John Henry and Cigar is to say that just because a horse is old doesn't mean that it necessarily has to look it (unless you check its teeth). They may not have been the easiest horses to deal with but they did a lot for the racing community and were well taken care of in their retirement, unlike Ferdinand and supposedly the horses referred to in the OP's original comments.

                Comment


                • #28
                  As pointed out a LOT can happen to your stored semen so if the horse was good enough to be a stallion in the first place then perhaps a back up plan is in order! Some stallions never reproduce themselves in their sons either, there may never be a replacement from that line. A lot depends on the stallion. If he is dangerous then yes I'd certainly geld him and hopefully that would take care of it. If not only then would euthanasia be considered. If you only ever breed a few mares from a stallion then this isn't a bad course of action but GELDING is the answer, not knocking him in the head! You can probably split your semen storage up into a couple different places and if it is lost then you probably can do OK with another stallion. If you are breeding 50-100 mares a year profitably then you better not kill the goose just because you have a nice stack of golden eggs!!

                  Of course racehorses are out of the loop in this argument and don't get me started on that!

                  People get so egocentric they think that if an animal isn't good for THEM (or in extension, their discipline) then he isn't any good to anyone else. At least give the bloody horse a chance at a new owner or new career!! Many TB mares and stallions are shipped to slaughter because the owner has no idea they would be snapped up by other breeds/disciplines. And they don't want to bother to sell them, it's just so much easier to load them into a truck.

                  The man who thinks he is righteous for offering his culled mares to outside countries of course KNEW how incredibly expensive it would be to transport them elsewhere so that isn't much of an argument. If he actually did put them down well, that is dumb money wise but I guess it's his choice. If he sent them to slaughter then well it's still dumb money wise but again his choice. Doesn't make him much of a horseman or a businessman though. I sure wouldn't give up on a mare with so few foals esp. since the stallion is responsible for half of the foal. Maybe HE chose the wrong stallions for her!

                  Of course he could have made more money and probably improved the local WB stock by selling them in most cases (some really should be culled from breeding!) BUT of course he does not want those horses out there breeding competition with HIS program. Particularly if somebody else happened to find the magic nick for her. Might make him look stupid, that ego thing again.
                  Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

                  Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    As the owner of a 25 year old TB who thinks he is a 3 year old, I agree they don't always look their age. Even if they do, it doesn't mean they are garbage however. Few things are better than a great old horse except for maybe a great old dog.
                    McDowell Racing Stables

                    Home Away From Home

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Having a backup plan in case a liquid nitrogen tank goes bad and you lose your stock of frozen semen is a great idea. But you could more easily store frozen semen in two or three physical locations, than feed a stallion.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        well the wording is "longer than necessary"
                        that leaves volumes of room for specific meaning
                        in a purely technical world there is no need of a breeding stallion once you have his semen...hell you would not really need the mare either after sufficient flushes all you'd need were some surrogate mares and you could play genetic mastermind for decades

                        a very good friend of mine keeps a herd of Pathfinder Angus (read: the ELITE cows of the largest breed in America) he just sold some old frozen semen from a bull that has been dead some 20 years...and even dead 20 years it was better than the average stock out there...

                        (there are tanks that have semen still from bulls from the beginning of the technology but they are generations outdated in their EPDs) and horses lack proved EPDs for standardized comparisons one to another so there is a need to actually see the living animal...does any one use semen from horses dead twenty years? that would be an interesting subject
                        Tamara
                        Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                        I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Feeling impish.. why don't we just do the same for the male population! lets start with him!

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by L&L View Post
                            Feeling impish.. why don't we just do the same for the male population! lets start with him!
                            Which "him" are you referring to?

                            Tom? Or the OP's "stallion euther"?

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              There's also the issue that if you do away with them too early, how do you know if they are going to develop some issue in older age that might make them less than desirable as a breeding stallion.

                              We could be propagating entire lines of horses that develop some syndrome that makes them keel over at 14, for instance

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Sounds like "freeze semen as much as you can and then kill the stallion".... What a horrible thing to imagine!
                                Gwendolyn
                                http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com
                                Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabians

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  .
                                  Last edited by Kyzteke; Mar. 11, 2013, 08:06 AM. Reason: that stupid "reply w/Quote" button didn't work

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Loopy View Post
                                    We have a colt here we are planning to have inspected when he's ready, and (fingers crossed he does well) we plan to have semen frozen from him for use on our own mares and for sale purposes.
                                    We do not intend to keep him forever at our place as we do not have the facilities (and I don't have the inclination) to have outside mares here for LC and it would be a shame not to have him used.
                                    The options are to send him away to public stud or there is a possibility we would have him gelded once we have a store of semen. Bumping him on the head isn't an option...
                                    We already have a large store of frozen semen from living and dead stallions (no suspicious circs. that I know of ), and are happy to use frozen on our own mares.
                                    I am assuming this is a WB colt? If not, then my comment may not be relevent.

                                    But if he is a WB, I will tell you my thoughts as a MO.

                                    If he passes the testing (because for me, that's a given),then I see him several years later out competing as a gelding, it would be a red flag to me. I would assume a temperament issue and stay away from him.

                                    Ditto if he was not competing at all and soundness was sited as an answer. This changes for a mature horse; one who has been competing for years and has shown he has the stuff. But if a young horse stops shortly after the testing and doesn't do anything else, he would not be on the top of my list.

                                    So, as a MARKETING aspect, gelding your stallion may just make him look bad.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #38
                                      ^

                                      My thoughts exactly.

                                      To see an inspected stallion that was gelded as soon as he passed his inspection, that only had frozen available, would SCREAM temperament / rideability and possibly soundness issues to me and I would steer clear far far away ...
                                      www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                                      www.truecoloursproducts.com

                                      True Colours Farm on Facebook

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        But suppose the stallion got 10s for character and temperament and rideability during the testing?
                                        www.juniperridgeranch.us
                                        Visit us on Facebook!

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by TrueColours View Post
                                          ^

                                          My thoughts exactly.

                                          To see an inspected stallion that was gelded as soon as he passed his inspection, that only had frozen available, would SCREAM temperament / rideability and possibly soundness issues to me and I would steer clear far far away ...
                                          There are plenty of stallions who have passed and even won stallion inspections etc that have gone on to be sold/gelded. Ruiz Soler is one. He was sold $$$$ to the US and was competing with a junior. http://s56.beta.photobucket.com/user...nored.jpg.html

                                          Most certainly not a temperament issue.
                                          "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X