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Michael Pollards breeding program vision.

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  • Michael Pollards breeding program vision.

    Here is the article: http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...eeding-program
    "Sometimes you just have to shut up and color."

  • #2
    Good luck with that.....
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      "Sometimes you just have to shut up and color."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ponygirl View Post
        <sigh>..It's NOT that we aren't producing the horses, it's the disconnect between the production and getting them under the appropriate rider(s). Most of our top riders shop in Europe. THAT's what needs to change. And the argument that the prices here are too high is specious and the argument that this country is too big is specious. 20 years ago - I would agree that it was difficult marketing horses. Now days, you can get a video showing everything about the horse (okay...some sellers/breeders don't put out particularly good videos, but that's a discussion for another thread) sent to you via the internet. Buyers can ask for more footage. Literally takes a small amount of time to tweak and video and upload to YouTube and send. 20 years ago, while you "could" get the video, it took time. Airline travel prices are low. And you can typically organize a trip to see several horses in a relatively small area in a couple days. Most smaller breeders "will" network with others to try and make it easier for buyers.

        It's difficult to get excited about our top riders when they don't get excited about our breeders and what we produce here! Where's the pride and patriotism in that? Support OUR industry and OUR economy and OUR breeders!

        Climbing off my soap box...it gets a bit wearisome hearing the same argument over and over again and no one seems to listen.
        Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
        Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
          <sigh>..It's NOT that we aren't producing the horses, it's the disconnect between the production and getting them under the appropriate rider(s).
          Well, pwynnnorman got a *pony* into the hands of a top rider. How did she do it?

          Comment


          • #6
            from the article:

            "We must decide what we need to breed and, ideally, we should develop a national studbook that would have the necessary pieces in place to be internationally recognized as our own breed. <snip>

            A National Sport Horse

            The idea I want to discuss in particular is the need for our own breed and studbook. "
            He makes some fair points, but I can hear screeching brakes and train horn whistles when people get to this part. I don't see the US ever having "our own breed" or a national studbook. American Warmbloods were an epic fail to the point where "American Warmblood" is now a derogatory term, and the NAS and Continental registries haven't had much luck either.
            Last edited by pinecone; Mar. 6, 2013, 10:27 AM. Reason: clarification
            "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." George Burns

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by grayarabpony View Post
              Well, pwynnnorman got a *pony* into the hands of a top rider. How did she do it?
              The pony was already competing at the upper levels. But, Wynn posts here...why not ask her? It wasn't by the upper level rider looking at what is being produced here, however. But, your question also validates my point! We ARE producing upper level horses here.
              Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
              Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by pinecone View Post
                He makes some fair points, but I can hear screeching brakes and train horn whistles when people get to this part. I don't see the US ever having "our own breed" or a national studbook.
                Yeah...I agree. Having our own name on it isn't going to change the dynamics. Riders aren't going to suddenly say "OHhhh!! I got to have me one of those!".
                Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
                Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

                Comment


                • #9
                  Our U.S. Equestrian Federation Breeding Committee (of which I am a new member) needs to be attended and eventually populated with the heads of high performance in each discipline.
                  U.S. Equestrian Federation Breeding Committee members
                  http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/AboutUs...eeDisplay.aspx

                  What is this committee and how were these people chosen (volunteers?) and who are half of them?
                  "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." George Burns

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't find anything bad about the article and I am glad an upper level rider is getting interested in breeding, and subsequently, young horses. This is something we have gone on and on about, and particularly with Eventers.

                    I would be fully behind an American studbook with the requirements and set up of a Euro one. It would also need reciprocity with the Euro registries, this is a key missing component. Maybe Continental has that but I am not aware of it.

                    As far as us breeding top quality horses, I don't think he mentioned we didn't. I do agree top performing mares to need to find their place in the breeding shed as well. My one thing is though... breeding for Eventing should be on purpose, a direction of breeding programs, not a horse bred for something else that happens to work out well.

                    Perhaps this is the start of a changing tide for Eventers, where they begin to search for purpose bred horses and young horses along with talented OTTBs. That would be wonderful.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      honestly - anything is possible and with a positive outlook, determination and hard work..... it can happen.

                      what i see looking in from the outside is that it appears that folks would rather not work together and that while there are many breeders breeding nice ammie horses, there does not appear to be many breeders breeding for topsport.

                      we also need riders to bring the youngsters up... that is really really an issue here.

                      i think that if a US top sport horse is wanted then it needs to be bred with strict controls by folks with a very tight vision and not allowed to be co opted for other purposes.

                      obviously it can work - look at the existing successful registries from other countries.........

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No, my question didn't validate your point. The point was that the horse was proving what he could do. Compete your pony stallion to the level he's capable of. Can he go around an advanced course, or at least an intermediate course? Or even better yet, a three or four star? If he can then maybe he will get more attention. Or put him in jumper classes if you don't want to risk jumping him over cross country fences at a high level.

                        A breeder can't show a buyer a horse that's being chased around a pasture or round pen and expect to get big bucks for it. SOoo many US breeders do that.

                        What sort of upper level horses is the US producing? Clearly there are some event horses. It would certainly appear NOT Olympic caliber jumpers, at this time. Dressage horses then I guess, although it's easy to say that with no back up.

                        I used to watch the Young Horse competitions in Raleigh. Full disclosure, it's probably been about 5 years since I went because frankly I got bored with it, and now there's not a show in Raleigh anymore. In that time I saw ONE horse that really impressed me. That horse was truly amazing. A mare I believe it was ridden by Jules Anderson. The rest didn't look to have the jump in the canter, all-around self-carriage or athleticism to be top dressage horses.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          He is pretty saying what many of us having been saying for years although I disagree with a few points. I totally disagree with his comment that Americans were buying pick of the litter from Europe. What helped put us so far behind was that Americans were getting the culls from Europe and typically overpaying to boot. Even now, it continues to be a problem.

                          Also, a North American registry is never going to work if high standards are not upheld. Too many times registries are started as a way to work around high standards and to include stallions and mares who are not eligible due to lack of pedigree, quality, performance, etc. There are several North American studbooks that include many stallions who would not be eligible for breeding based on European standards. While this may not seem a concern, but lowering the standards not only lowers the quality of horses we are producing as well making it difficult to sell to other countries were it is important to follow a standard of quality control.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            His article annoyed me on so many levels. I am sure he did not even come up with it on his own, and that he has no passion for breeding.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              with regret, i agree. i found it detached, presumptuous, uninformed and unintelligent. four wasted minutes of life...
                              Hidden Pearl Farm

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                [QUOTE=magicteetango;6873266]I don't find anything bad about the article and I am glad an upper level rider is getting interested in breeding, and subsequently, young horses. This is something we have gone on and on about, and particularly with Eventers.

                                Do I wanna party with YOU!! seriously, PM me and we can talk turkey..or ..err, rather, WBFSH ranked bloodlines produced right here in the good ol' US of A.

                                It's what I breed, it's what I shop for and it's what I loved about Pollard's article is his affirmation of the ET program I have been trying to get going all on my lonesome with some eventing ubermares.

                                sure I can nitpick about certain ideas in the article, however, I was inspired to see someone think outside the box. Okay, stop my jingoist rant and step away from the star spangled banner.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
                                  The pony was already competing at the upper levels. But, Wynn posts here...why not ask her? It wasn't by the upper level rider looking at what is being produced here, however. But, your question also validates my point! We ARE producing upper level horses here.
                                  Christian Trainor (who posts on COTH but now lives in AUS) brought Teddy to the upper levels before the ride was given to Karen. Christian also purchased Teddy's brother to compete, but I believe she moved out of the country and sold him on before he was old enough to do so.

                                  http://www.trainoreventing.com/homepage.html
                                  Rhode Islands are red;
                                  North Hollands are blue.
                                  Sorry my thoroughbreds
                                  Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I'm just going to chime in here with the whole studbook thing. I didn't read the article but will. You keep alluding to Euro studbooks and the high standards. Yes, books like Holstein are the best. Closed mare lines. But other books such as AES and Z book produce top class horses and yet no drama and fuss. The horse that won the 150k GP at the weekend is AES. Thing is one book will never please everyone. It's a nightmare scenario and involves much squabbling. Over here it's much more relaxed which I find somewhat funny. With my TB mare I have at least full registry with 4 books. With the daughter who is in the main foal book of the KWPN I have more. The registries aren't worried.

                                    More important to make it somewhat easy to get horses registered in the first place so you can keep track of the bloodlines. More important that trainers and breeders work together to keep that information in tact. As it stands nobody wants to even bother registering because of the cost and travel with young foals. It's a hassle. So you can hate books that allow registered mares into their books but at the end of the day those horses have traceable pedigrees. There are already books for the major Euro registries. Those eligible have a choice. The attitudes are what ruin any chance of having somewhere to register a horse. Oh that's just an American Warmblood, no good. We're any of the Olympic champion horses Gold Premium at their approvals? Lets start recognising sport horses. That's what the end goal is isn't it? Performance? Get out of the notion that everything that hits the ground is a stallion or broodmare prospect. You want top riders buying the horses than they have to be out in sport doing the job.

                                    And no I'm not saying that you can have any ole mare or breed willy nilly. I see too many American breeders that want someone else to do all the hard and expensive graft of getting those horses out competing. Even the best bred need to be showing something before a pro takes over. You all leave out the middle factor which is production. Ready to go. That's why people come to Europe. The production part is way cheaper here.

                                    I know I'll get flamed away but I'm used to it. And Kathy I'm delighted to see Harry out there doing exactly what he was bred to do.

                                    Terri
                                    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

                                    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Renascence View Post
                                      His article annoyed me on so many levels. I am sure he did not even come up with it on his own, and that he has no passion for breeding.
                                      I didn't get that impression at all. Michael Pollard's Chatsworth Stud offers 3 stallions for event breeding: Formula One, Querdolan Vitarel (in Europe with Bettina Hoy), and Halimey (recently imported and competing with Michael at Prelim).

                                      I think these stallions are pretty interesting and have heard about the Pollards' breeding interests developing for several years. Several "old era" event riders had quite nice breeding programs-- Denny; Phyllis Dawson; and Bruce Davidson rode his homebreds to the top for years. But the type of horse has changed, and to a degree, the riders have too... you don't see many riders, especially at the upper levels, making their horses from scratch (and by scratch, I mean This Mare and That Stallion, not buying a green 4 year old).

                                      If MP wants to get more attention to US sport horse breeding, and get other upper level riders involved, I think that's great.
                                      “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
                                      ? Albert Einstein

                                      ~AJ~

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Isn't the PHR suposed to be similar to what MP is saying? It's not a breed registry, but a sporthorse registry that is part of the USEF to track the bloodlines of real honest to goodness sporthorses (the ones actually competing).

                                        "Many positive changes followed in the years to come, including a move from the Jockey Club to the American Horse Shows Association, now the United States Equestrian Federation (USEF), in September of 2000. In 2004, PHR became part of the USEF, and is now considered an official branch of the National Governing Body. With the move, the registry became the source for sport horse breeding for the Federation. Now the lineage of horses competing in the United States can be tracked and honored. The move provided a needed boost for the registry, ensuring it would have a valued impact on the sport horse world in the 21st century. "
                                        Rhode Islands are red;
                                        North Hollands are blue.
                                        Sorry my thoroughbreds
                                        Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :

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