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Photo of Starlight in 10/10/08 Chronicle

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  • Photo of Starlight in 10/10/08 Chronicle

    When I was reading through the most recent issue I saw the results for DAD, and was looking at the photo of Starlight. Lovely stallion, but to me it looks like his right front foot is much more upright than his left. Did anyone else notice this?

    I went and looked at other photos from the show and noticed the same thing, though it appears the most severe in the Chronicle photo. I am just trying to understand how a horse can be the Grand Champion at Devon with what I have always considered to be a major conformation fault. Are the photos deceiving, or is it not the horrible fault I had always heard it was? Thoughts?
    www.ashknollfarm.com

  • #2
    I have seen Starlight in person, in his stall, at Devon last year. I looked him over with a fine tooth comb as I had a foal coming from him. I did not think at that time he looked uneven upfront. My colt, Sawyer" from his first foal crop here in the US,

    http://good-times.webshots.com/photo...01752579NzlGBj

    does not have any uneven angles to his pasterns. I do not have access to the Chronicle article. Is it the same photos by the photog "Perry" that is on his website? If it is, I think he is not totally full weight bearing on the upright foot and the photo may be deceiving.

    Lisa

    Comment


    • #3
      Regarding all stallions: It is always important to see breeding stock up close and personal so that you can make informed decisions. You will be living with the result as the mare and foal owner for a long time. Find a way to go see a stallion in person. Even an airline ticket is cheaper than a couple of years feeding a mare and foal. BBs may not give you accurate information on any breeding choice.

      I may be old fashioned and in a minority about meeting a stallion in person, but I also base my choices on personality and demeanor. Photographs and videos don't give me enough input for evaluating those things.
      Anne
      -------
      "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist

      Comment


      • #4
        I noticed the same thing; BUT I really think he is just standing oddly. It looks like maybe he isn't putting his full weight on his leg, or that the footing is kind of mounded up under his heel in that particular photo.
        Already excited about our 2016 foals! Expecting babies by Indoctro, Diamant de Semilly, Zirocco Blue and Calido!
        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227

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        • #5
          I also saw him in person and there was no evidence of any bad angles in his foot in person. I think that the photo most likely was an artifact (ie, he was fully weight bearing on that foot).

          Also, for all the Championship classes at DAD, there are 4 judges judging in a panel -- some of the most knowledgeable sporthorse judges--who do know what they are judging as far as horse flesh goes. I highly doubt that they would let a horse with a major conformation flaw become Grand Champion.
          Kris
          www.edgewoodmeadowfarm.com
          Like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/edgewoodmeadowfarm

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          • #6
            Originally posted by idlemoon View Post
            I have seen Starlight in person, in his stall, at Devon last year. I looked him over with a fine tooth comb as I had a foal coming from him. I did not think at that time he looked uneven upfront. My colt, Sawyer" from his first foal crop here in the US,

            http://good-times.webshots.com/photo...01752579NzlGBj

            does not have any uneven angles to his pasterns. I do not have access to the Chronicle article. Is it the same photos by the photog "Perry" that is on his website? If it is, I think he is not totally full weight bearing on the upright foot and the photo may be deceiving.

            Lisa
            Lisa, I was hoping when I read this thread that you were on here! I knew that you had seen him in person and would never have used him on Her Highness (Dutchess) if he had that kind of a flaw!
            Holly
            www.ironhorsefrm.com
            Oldenburg foals and young prospects
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            • #7
              I don't see anything wrong with Starlight's feet, I think his one foot is sort of sunk into the sand creating an optical illusion.

              What bothered me more was when the article told about Starlight only placing 3rd when he was ridden the day of the show. He was "too quiet", more of a Hunter mentality. So this year it sounds like he was locked up for two days, behaved like a lunatic and WON . I'm sorry, but the last time I checked, Dressage horses are ridden and I think that the fact that the Judges reward this kind of behaviour is NOT a good thing for anyone.

              Now, I understand that this is just the way it is. We have shown our stallion in the USDF/DSHB Series for the last 4 years. He has always done very well and in fact was # 5 in the Nation last year. But he has also been ridden at every show so we have also gotten the too quiet comment . This year he was shown PSG, so he was even more "quiet" by the time the in-hand class rolled around. So now he is retired from in-hand classes because it is apparent that you can not show a riding horse in the in-hand classes because then they are too quiet .

              Wouldn't you think that correct movement would be more important than the movement a horse shows when they are all jazzed up?? After all, that jazzed up movement is not the way horses move when they are put to work.
              Patty
              www.rivervalefarm.com
              Follow us on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/River...ref=ts&fref=ts

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              • #8
                Originally posted by NoDQhere View Post
                I don't see anything wrong with Starlight's feet, I think his one foot is sort of sunk into the sand creating an optical illusion.

                What bothered me more was when the article told about Starlight only placing 3rd when he was ridden the day of the show. He was "too quiet", more of a Hunter mentality. So this year it sounds like he was locked up for two days, behaved like a lunatic and WON . I'm sorry, but the last time I checked, Dressage horses are ridden and I think that the fact that the Judges reward this kind of behaviour is NOT a good thing for anyone.

                Now, I understand that this is just the way it is. We have shown our stallion in the USDF/DSHB Series for the last 4 years. He has always done very well and in fact was # 5 in the Nation last year. But he has also been ridden at every show so we have also gotten the too quiet comment . This year he was shown PSG, so he was even more "quiet" by the time the in-hand class rolled around. So now he is retired from in-hand classes because it is apparent that you can not show a riding horse in the in-hand classes because then they are too quiet .

                Wouldn't you think that correct movement would be more important than the movement a horse shows when they are all jazzed up?? After all, that jazzed up movement is not the way horses move when they are put to work.
                Thanks so much for this post! I've felt the same way about USDF breed shows for years-- ever since I saw a youngster WITH an abundance of serious conformation flaws win a grand championship because of her "jazzed up movement." This is, in fact, why I quit going to these shows, opting to go the HB route instead. I'm an old lady with brittle bones, who starts my own horses. I need them to be quiet, not hyper-reactive to clucks, plastic bags and the like.
                http://www.tunnelsendfarm.com

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by NoDQhere View Post
                  I don't see anything wrong with Starlight's feet, I think his one foot is sort of sunk into the sand creating an optical illusion.

                  What bothered me more was when the article told about Starlight only placing 3rd when he was ridden the day of the show. He was "too quiet", more of a Hunter mentality. So this year it sounds like he was locked up for two days, behaved like a lunatic and WON . I'm sorry, but the last time I checked, Dressage horses are ridden and I think that the fact that the Judges reward this kind of behaviour is NOT a good thing for anyone.

                  Now, I understand that this is just the way it is. We have shown our stallion in the USDF/DSHB Series for the last 4 years. He has always done very well and in fact was # 5 in the Nation last year. But he has also been ridden at every show so we have also gotten the too quiet comment . This year he was shown PSG, so he was even more "quiet" by the time the in-hand class rolled around. So now he is retired from in-hand classes because it is apparent that you can not show a riding horse in the in-hand classes because then they are too quiet .

                  Wouldn't you think that correct movement would be more important than the movement a horse shows when they are all jazzed up?? After all, that jazzed up movement is not the way horses move when they are put to work.
                  Unfortunately I think a lot of dressage judges/inspectors want stallions acting like fire breathing dragons. I just don't get it! I had points taken off b/c my 2 year old stallion wasn't acting like a stallion in his DSHB 2 year old colt/gelding class. Give me a break! I know of two registries that told my friend that her stallion acts too much like a gelding. (Isn't that a good thing?) Very frustrating!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Part of the point of the DSHB program is to encourage people to breed horses that would be competitive with those bred by our European counterparts. For the most part, the Europeans want stallions to look and act like stallions, not like geldings. If you have ever been at a European stallion licensing or exhibition, you would see that they have no problems with a stallion showing off, as long as he is not out of control or viciously aggressive toward his handler or others. Super quiet, mild-mannered stallions often do not get a second glance at a European stallion licensing or show, nor are the breeders there much inclined to use them, except with a very strong-willed, domineering mare (and breeders tend to not like to use these types of mares because they are too difficult to work with).

                    And for the record, whips with bags attached are not permitted at DSHB shows (whips, yes - but not bags).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Nevada was turned down by the Belgian Warmblood Registry for stallion approval, "because he lacked stallion presence". He actually has a lot, and it is what everyone says his foals all have. He is just a quiet boy - especially off the farm. He just didn't happen to think the inspectors were that cute.

                      I didn't lock him up for his inspection. He had been turned out with his mares and foals the night before.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DownYonder View Post
                        Part of the point of the DSHB program is to encourage people to breed horses that would be competitive with those bred by our European counterparts. For the most part, the Europeans want stallions to look and act like stallions, not like geldings. If you have ever been at a European stallion licensing or exhibition, you would see that they have no problems with a stallion showing off, as long as he is not out of control or viciously aggressive toward his handler or others. Super quiet, mild-mannered stallions often do not get a second glance at a European stallion licensing or show, nor are the breeders there much inclined to use them, except with a very strong-willed, domineering mare (and breeders tend to not like to use these types of mares because they are too difficult to work with).

                        And for the record, whips with bags attached are not permitted at DSHB shows (whips, yes - but not bags).
                        We're not just talking about the stallions here--- mares and babies are presented and scored in the same way. Regardless of what Europeans might prefer, I need to keep safe manners a priority with my horses and do not find that it interferes with how they show under saddle-- only in-hand at the DSHB shows, where it's apparently desirable to hype up young horses for the sake of points.

                        Whenever I go to a DSHB show, I'm reminded of a passage in Seunig's *Horsemanship* in which he warns buyers to watch out for horses showing impressively elevated movement because of "grooms hidden in the bushes," because it might prove very difficult to get them to move like that again while working.

                        (re: the rule on plastic bags: I don't need my horses jumping out of their skin in response to whips either.)
                        http://www.tunnelsendfarm.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fish View Post
                          We're not just talking about the stallions here--- mares and babies are presented and scored in the same way...
                          That's fine. Obviously, the DSHB shows aren't for made for you, and you aren't made for the DSHB shows. Just because you don't like them doesn't make them wrong. Many people don't like the way hunter breeding shows are run. That doesn't make them wrong, either.

                          Different strokes for different folks, variety is the spice of life, vive la difference, and all that stuff.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I always will remember a conversation I had with a BN dressage trainer a few years ago at Devon. We were watching a phenominal mare that was by a stallion in Germany. He said, "You don't ride horses by xyz, they breed to him for in hand only." I am just not sure why ANY breeding goal would be in-hand only. The mare was imported.

                            Not sure if this is Starlight. I have tried to match his markings, so probably? Anyway, a beautiful boy.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
                              I always will remember a conversation I had with a BN dressage trainer a few years ago at Devon. We were watching a phenominal mare that was by a stallion in Germany. He said, "You don't ride horses by xyz, they breed to him for in hand only." I am just not sure why ANY breeding goal would be in-hand only. The mare was imported.

                              Maybe there's a market for in-hand WB's similar to those for halter QH's and Arabs???
                              http://www.tunnelsendfarm.com

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post

                                Not sure if this is Starlight. I have tried to match his markings, so probably? Anyway, a beautiful boy.
                                That is definitely him (matching markings AND handler/owner [Rick Silvia is holding him and is the owner, although he did not show him in the arena])
                                Kris
                                www.edgewoodmeadowfarm.com
                                Like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/edgewoodmeadowfarm

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                                • #17
                                  Glad to confirm that it was him. I was just snapping photos of the "pretty horsie"

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    The point I was trying to make is that the movement we see when a horse is all jazzed up is NOT the movement the horse will have under saddle. At least not for more than a short while . IMO that jazzed up movement is pretty but it is often times accompanied by a tight back and tenseness overall.

                                    Funny, but I thought the purpose of the DSHB classes was to assess a horse as a DRESSAGE HORSE They are supposed to be lunatics on the line, and then perfect little angles under saddle . Just let a young stallion show his "stallion presence" under saddle and see how hysterical the "officials" get .
                                    Patty
                                    www.rivervalefarm.com
                                    Follow us on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/River...ref=ts&fref=ts

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
                                      I always will remember a conversation I had with a BN dressage trainer a few years ago at Devon. We were watching a phenominal mare that was by a stallion in Germany. He said, "You don't ride horses by xyz, they breed to him for in hand only." I am just not sure why ANY breeding goal would be in-hand only.
                                      Errr...why not??? Arab breeders have made an entire industry out of it!! <tongue FIRMLY planted in cheek>. Quite honestly, it is one of the things that freaks me out about in-hand classes. The goal of "handsome is as handsome does" sometimes gets kicked to the curb and the whole premise behind halter classes is lost, e.g., breeding horses that are conformationally correct for the discipline they were bred for. Arabs and Quarter Horses are good examples of that - Arabs that are absolutely explosive, with fine, fine legs that just aren't suitable for riding and Quarter Horses that are so muscle bound with itty, bitty, teenie weenie feet. Not saying all fit those molds, but a disproportionate number do.

                                      Kathy St.Martin
                                      Equine Reproduction Short Courses
                                      http://www.equine-reproduction.com
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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
                                        I always will remember a conversation I had with a BN dressage trainer a few years ago at Devon. We were watching a phenominal mare that was by a stallion in Germany. He said, "You don't ride horses by xyz, they breed to him for in hand only." I am just not sure why ANY breeding goal would be in-hand only. The mare was imported.

                                        Not sure if this is Starlight. I have tried to match his markings, so probably? Anyway, a beautiful boy.

                                        Just wanted to make sure that everyone is aware that Starlight is not just an "in hand" horse. In actuality, Rick is primarily a rider who decided to "test" his stallion out in the in-hand arena. As only an 8 year old, Starlight is successfully competing at PSG (median about 67%) and has tested the waters in Int 1 (about a 69%). He is schooling piaffe and passage (you can see the piaffe photo on Starlight's webpage). So he is more than just a pretty in hand horse.
                                        Kris
                                        www.edgewoodmeadowfarm.com
                                        Like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/edgewoodmeadowfarm

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