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I've been nice, I've been patient, now what?

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  • I've been nice, I've been patient, now what?

    I booked to a RID stallion in December of 2011; I booked early so I could get a discount, and paid $1000 for the stud fee.

    My mare foaled in May, we skipped her foal heat, and I prepped to breed her on her 21 day cycle. Unfortunately she ovulated earlier than expected and we missed her.

    We short cycled her, I dropped her at my vet's facility, and a couple of days later I ordered semen. The evening that the semen was supposed to be shipped, I received an emotional phone call from the SO telling me that the stallion was having a severe glaucoma flare up, and was blind. Initially I was full of sympathy, but then I thought WTF, why would an SO not know their stallion was blind?!! And why have I spent all these $$ readying my mare only to find out I'm not even going to get a shipment of semen?

    They offered to collect one of this stallion's sons, but I picked this stallion for specific reasons, and didn't want second best for her. **Side note, we had bred another mare to one of their other stallions, and received semen with less than 15% motility both times. He would have been my second choice, but why would I throw money at that?**

    By then we were nearing the beginning of July, and I didn't want to breed my mare that late (we live in GA, and it gets HOT). I asked for a refund since it didn't sound promising that the stallion would be available for collecting again (in fact, he was euthanized a couple of weeks later).

    SO assured me that I would receive a full refund. They were planning a move across the pond, and would reimburse me as soon as they sold one of their horses (who doesn't keep some stud fee dollars in an escrow for cases like this??).

    Fast forward until now. SO has sold MULTIPLE horses, bought a new stallion, and has moved to England. The closest I've come to getting my money was a $500 check that bounced, and I had to pay a bank fee on!!!!

    They still have at least two horses in the US that are for sale. Am I entitled to put a lien against these horses?

    Any suggestions would be appreciated....
    Fade to Grey Farm
    Eventing, Foxhunting & Connemaras
    *NEW* website:www.fadetogreyfarm.com

  • #2
    I can offer to replace the breeding for free...

    I don't know if that will help as my stallion is the opposite of any of his stallions...17+ traditional type...11 inches of bone http://www.warmbloods-for-sale.com/H...63&UserID=3935 but he is also RID Class 1. I think there are probably other stallion owners who will stand behind the breed to help get your mare bred. I will post on the IDHSNA Central Region Facebook page and see who else might offer. PatO

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    • #3
      I hate to say you are most likely SOOL. Your best option would be to take them to small claims court. It would cost more than it is worth to file a civil suit.

      Also, I also hate to be the person to say this but if you win a small claims court case against them and if they are standing a new stallion...your best option of getting paid is to go public. The negative press may light a fire under them to pay you back. I would only do this when you have a court judgement in your favor...so you are only stating FACTS, not he said, she said.

      I won a civil suit against a past employee of mine that stole $20K. I'll never get paid but I put my saga online. This way when she applies for a new job if they do an internet search before hiring her, her name will come up with this story. It was my only "revenge" and a way to let other potential future employers know that she is a thief.
      Read about my time at the Hannoveraner Verband Breeders Courses:
      http://blumefarm.com/hannoveranercourse2011.html
      http://blumefarm.com/hannoveranercourse2012.html

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      • #4
        Wow! You really did get screwed -- I'm so sorry! PatO that is a really generous offer! I hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction. I stood two stallions for many years and can't imagine not doing everything possible and honest to resolve an issue such as this! Best of luck -- most stallion owners want only to get your mare in foal and hope for a live foal as a result.
        PennyG

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        • #5
          Originally posted by columbus View Post
          I don't know if that will help as my stallion is the opposite of any of his stallions...17+ traditional type...11 inches of bone http://www.warmbloods-for-sale.com/H...63&UserID=3935 but he is also RID Class 1. I think there are probably other stallion owners who will stand behind the breed to help get your mare bred. I will post on the IDHSNA Central Region Facebook page and see who else might offer. PatO

          What a lovely gesture.
          "I don't know what your generation's fascination is with documenting your every thought... but I can assure you, they're not all diamonds." Mr. G

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          • #6
            Originally posted by bluehof View Post
            I won a civil suit against a past employee of mine that stole $20K. I'll never get paid but I put my saga online. This way when she applies for a new job if they do an internet search before hiring her, her name will come up with this story. It was my only "revenge" and a way to let other potential future employers know that she is a thief.
            Couldn't agree more! In my opinion, you were getting the run around right from the beginning and I don't think they had any intention of refunding your money. And yes, reputable Stallion Owners do set money aside during the year for cases just like this...or at least will pay you back in a timely manner, especially if they've gone and sold a few horses in the meantime

            One option is small claims court, but that really does you no good if they are now in the UK. I'm not a lawyer, but I would guess that you would actually have to hire a lawyer and sue civilly in order to put a lien on one of the horses still residing in the U.S. And sadly, most lawyers will tell you that if you are suing for under $25,000, the lawyer fees, filing fees and court costs will greatly outweigh anything you gain from it.

            But like bluehof mentioned, your best revenge is to openly express your dissatisfaction with their business practices and service. I mean really, we give hotels and restaurants good and bad reviews, why not Stallion Owners? And as bluehof mentioned, if nothing else, it may stop an innocent party from doing business with them if they should happen to do a search for them on the internet and your bad review pops up.

            And a HUGE kudos to columbus for her generous offer. If only all Stallion Owners could be that awesome!!
            www.DaventryEquestrian.com
            Home of Welsh Cob stallion Goldhills Brandysnap
            Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals & Equine Expert Witness
            www.EquineAppraisers.com

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            • #7
              Replacement Semen

              Summit Equine Hospital in Apex,North Carolina is the agent for some of those horses. I would contact them.
              You might also contact the owners in the UK at www.idhsgb.com on the Forum page.
              Good luck

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Hi All,

                Thank you for the responses, you've confirmed my thoughts. It will cost too much money to take legal action, and I will likely never get the stud fee back. I am aware that there is frozen on some of their previous stallions, and I'm thinking I might ask for 'x' amount of doses to be done with it. Shame the stallion I really wanted to use doesn't have any stored.
                Fade to Grey Farm
                Eventing, Foxhunting & Connemaras
                *NEW* website:www.fadetogreyfarm.com

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by columbus View Post
                  I don't know if that will help as my stallion is the opposite of any of his stallions...17+ traditional type...11 inches of bone http://www.warmbloods-for-sale.com/H...63&UserID=3935 but he is also RID Class 1. I think there are probably other stallion owners who will stand behind the breed to help get your mare bred. I will post on the IDHSNA Central Region Facebook page and see who else might offer. PatO
                  PatO: Thank you, and I am impressed to say that you are the SECOND RID owner/breeder that has offered this! What a gesture from your society, and although I'm not one to right a breed off because of one negative experience, it certainly gives me hope for future dealings within the breed and society.

                  We do have a 1/2 RID 1/4 Conn 1/4 TB due in April, and I will be pleased to be joining the society!
                  Fade to Grey Farm
                  Eventing, Foxhunting & Connemaras
                  *NEW* website:www.fadetogreyfarm.com

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Daventry View Post
                    Couldn't agree more! In my opinion, you were getting the run around right from the beginning and I don't think they had any intention of refunding your money. And yes, reputable Stallion Owners do set money aside during the year for cases just like this...or at least will pay you back in a timely manner, especially if they've gone and sold a few horses in the meantime

                    One option is small claims court, but that really does you no good if they are now in the UK. I'm not a lawyer, but I would guess that you would actually have to hire a lawyer and sue civilly in order to put a lien on one of the horses still residing in the U.S. And sadly, most lawyers will tell you that if you are suing for under $25,000, the lawyer fees, filing fees and court costs will greatly outweigh anything you gain from it.

                    But like bluehof mentioned, your best revenge is to openly express your dissatisfaction with their business practices and service. I mean really, we give hotels and restaurants good and bad reviews, why not Stallion Owners? And as bluehof mentioned, if nothing else, it may stop an innocent party from doing business with them if they should happen to do a search for them on the internet and your bad review pops up.

                    And a HUGE kudos to columbus for her generous offer. If only all Stallion Owners could be that awesome!!
                    Since they are no longer in the country, hopefully they can't do any more damage here. I try not to be vindictive but believe me if there are any inquiries about this couple or their program, I will be PM-ing away! Sadly, this happens over and over in the horse world, each time a you learn a little more. I purchased two nice colts last year in hopes that one will be suitable to keep entire for my program; trying to rule out having to deal with other SOs!
                    Fade to Grey Farm
                    Eventing, Foxhunting & Connemaras
                    *NEW* website:www.fadetogreyfarm.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Frozen Semen

                      Originally posted by GAEventer View Post
                      Hi All,

                      Thank you for the responses, you've confirmed my thoughts. It will cost too much money to take legal action, and I will likely never get the stud fee back. I am aware that there is frozen on some of their previous stallions, and I'm thinking I might ask for 'x' amount of doses to be done with it. Shame the stallion I really wanted to use doesn't have any stored.
                      Yes there is frozen semen for this horse. If you post on GB's forum, the owner posts there. Maybe she will do the right thing

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        So sorry to hear GAEventer
                        www.muskokalakesconnemaras.com
                        Wonderful ponies for family or show!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I would ordinarily say wise things like you need to do your research before you get involved with a stallion owner/trainer/breeder but some people, for whatever reason, seem to leave a trail of problems and excuses behind them, at times nearly getting their act together, but not quite. Sometimes you come across someone who has a lot of people who toss them huzzahs and blessings and say you will love them, while the rest of us just shake our heads and wonder about what seems obvious. I think we experienced horse people sometimes kid themselves that we would never fall for a accent or a smooth presentation but the truth is we don't want to live our life looking for dishonesty...or at least I don't. So we have put this out there for ideas in the ID community and maybe someone will have the right key to help you. In this day and age with the internet and Facebook you can't escape your past. Shortly, people across the Atlantic will know to beware. There IS incentive for them to resolve this and show they DO care about their customers. If they want success in their new home this would be a good start. I am by no means perfect and have a paperwork disability that aggravates others. I hope what has been done helps. Take care PatO

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You have the worst luck... I remember the issues with Comet Shine's people too. Just awful! I would put this on the forums they frequent and ask for frozen, they need to do the right thing here.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              boy this sucks...sounds like you're out of luck. perhaps this is something these people do often? have you heard of anyone else having the same problems with these breeders? if so, what course of action did THEY take and did they have any luck?
                              Teaching Horseback Riding Lessons: A Practical Training Manual for Instructors

                              Stop Wasting Hay and Extend Consumption Time With Round Bale Hay Nets!!

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                              • #16
                                This totally sucks and as a Stallion Owner myself, it really hits home as how NOT to do business with clients that have trusted you at your word and sent money up front to you

                                When Winner died - very suddenly with no warning when he was away from our farm, I had 3 paid bookings to him and a multitude of expenses on him that I was counting on the stud fees to pay me back with. When I got the news I had a serious "Oh SH!#" moment, had a drink, did nothing that night and then started emailing and calling the clients the next morning to let them know and to give them 3 options. One which was to refund their fees completely including the booking fee which I clearly state in my contract is "non refundable in all circumstances". I figured they cant be dealt a loss because he died ...

                                I unfortunately didnt hold any funds in "escrow" and I told my clients it would take me a few weeks to pay them back, which it did, but everyone that wanted their fees refunded was paid back and now I know if my name comes up anywhere and they are reading it, they would stand behind their dealings with me and be complimentary in how I handled our transaction. And that is the ONLY way *I* know how to conduct my business

                                And yes - I also was well aware that no one would sue me - the dollar amounts werent high enough to do so, but that was never the point. Doing the "right thing" always was

                                SO sorry you've gone through this. I hope you can get it resolved
                                www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                                www.truecoloursproducts.com

                                True Colours Farm on Facebook

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                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by magicteetango View Post
                                  You have the worst luck... I remember the issues with Comet Shine's people too. Just awful! I would put this on the forums they frequent and ask for frozen, they need to do the right thing here.
                                  Amazingly I managed to get the stud fee back in that situation. It took several months but she did pay me back. Granted, I had wasted much more preparing the mare for breeding.
                                  Fade to Grey Farm
                                  Eventing, Foxhunting & Connemaras
                                  *NEW* website:www.fadetogreyfarm.com

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by equinekingdom View Post
                                    boy this sucks...sounds like you're out of luck. perhaps this is something these people do often? have you heard of anyone else having the same problems with these breeders? if so, what course of action did THEY take and did they have any luck?
                                    I've received mixed reviews on this farm's business practices. I thought I did my homework; I went to the farm, met her and the stallions. I had talked to a few people and hadn't heard anything negative. They were prompt with the paperwork for the contracts (which so many SO's aren't).

                                    They agreed to refund my money since the stallion died and there isn't frozen on him (and I didn't really want to go the frozen route). I didn't want to switch to another one of the stallions since it was so late in the season, and more importantly, they weren't who I would pick for the mare. Now, I'm thinking I should try to get an agreement on frozen for one of the other boys and just use on another mare down the road. We will see if they will agree to this.

                                    Again, I really appreciate the response from the IDSNA, and am impressed that so many in their community are concerned about a client's experience within their breed.
                                    Fade to Grey Farm
                                    Eventing, Foxhunting & Connemaras
                                    *NEW* website:www.fadetogreyfarm.com

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                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by fragonard View Post
                                      Yes there is frozen semen for this horse. If you post on GB's forum, the owner posts there. Maybe she will do the right thing
                                      Fragonard from what I understand, they intended to freeze him, but either didn't complete the process before he died, or he didn't freeze well.
                                      Fade to Grey Farm
                                      Eventing, Foxhunting & Connemaras
                                      *NEW* website:www.fadetogreyfarm.com

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                                      • #20
                                        You could apply pressure via the registry they use.
                                        ... _. ._ .._. .._

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