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Redwine and Aloha in Ontario, Canada

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  • Originally posted by S A McKee View Post
    But you claimed that your source was Laurierace and she refuses to confirm her source.
    Now you say it comes from Ashland?

    This is like tin cans on a string.
    Sorry, I read Laurie's post which said Jill owning Redwine was confirmed. Subsequently I received an email from Ashland stating that they were leasing him 2013/2014.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by horsenut93136 View Post
      Sorry, I read Laurie's post which said Jill owning Redwine was confirmed. Subsequently I received an email from Ashland stating that they were leasing him 2013/2014.
      Why can't Ashland just make that information public and center ? If they are afraid they are going to lose bookings because the horse is still affiliated with Jill , I think going about it in this manner has the potential to lose more then simply stating the truth.
      "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

      Comment


      • I know a few local people that refuse to use them this summer because you this news already...myself included.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Lynnwood View Post
          Why can't Ashland just make that information public and center ? If they are afraid they are going to lose bookings because the horse is still affiliated with Jill , I think going about it in this manner has the potential to lose more then simply stating the truth.
          exactly, they are going to lose more because it appears shady. I get that maybe paperwork isn't finished etc. But, I am quite certain that someone from both camps is reading this board and knows full well the speculation that was running rampant, so why say your "preparing a statement". Pikturesque was quick to post their ad standing him at Ashland without checking facts, (stating Aloha was IHF). The next day that was removed. Yet the purchase needs weeks to make a statement about?

          Comment


          • With Jill's financial track record, I would think she won't own RW for too much longer. I would hope Ashland has a contract that includes confiscation for lack of payment. If no one breeds to him, she doesn't get any money, she can't pay his board, etc, etc. I hope they didn't take him as a free lease
            "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Toadie's mom View Post
              With Jill's financial track record, I would think she won't own RW for too much longer. I would hope Ashland has a contract that includes confiscation for lack of payment. If no one breeds to him, she doesn't get any money, she can't pay his board, etc, etc. I hope they didn't take him as a free lease
              ugh ugh and more ugh. I don't know Paul Morgan but god help us if there is another shady deal or deals that ends up with JB getting money while people have paricipated in an auction to help her neglected horses AND there are many folks standing in line to get paid on her bad debts AND there are stories that abound of sad landings of mares. Ugly and uglier every day
              "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



              www.dontlookbackfarm.com

              Comment


              • I know that stallions sometimes go to stand at other farms. I remember A Fine Romance being at Hilltop a few years ago. How does this usually work? Does the farm pay a upfront fee, leases the stallion and does the owner get a percentage of the sales? I have no idea. It may be a stupid question... but still... I 'd like to know what the USUAL arrangement is.

                Comment


                • If it is a true lease, it won't cost Jill a penny for the term of the lease. The lessee typically pays for everything and a fee of some sort, worked out between the two parties, and then the horse is virtually theirs for that period. Of course, the fee/contract is unique to each situation, so only they know the terms.

                  I am not sure if Hilltop actually leases their stallions, or are simply paid a fee or percentage to manage and promote them, with the actual stud fees still going to the owner. Anyone know?
                  Laurie

                  Comment


                  • I'm sure there are many different lease options, but if a farm is standing a stallion they don't own (and I'm speaking of race farms) they are compensated for board, handleing, advertising. If the stallion is hugely popular then they'll partner with the owner to share expenses, and of course, profits. This could be in part ownership, or breeding rights, or both.
                    "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by lauriep View Post
                      If it is a true lease, it won't cost Jill a penny for the term of the lease. The lessee typically pays for everything and a fee of some sort, worked out between the two parties, and then the horse is virtually theirs for that period. Of course, the fee/contract is unique to each situation, so only they know the terms.

                      I am not sure if Hilltop actually leases their stallions, or are simply paid a fee or percentage to manage and promote them, with the actual stud fees still going to the owner. Anyone know?
                      The guest stallion program at Hilltop Farm is pretty much unique. They handle, book, collect, ship, advertise, and promote the stallion for the owner, for a fee. It is in no way a lease situation.
                      "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin

                      Comment


                      • Typically, in a non-lease situation, the stallion owner who stands their stallion at another facility pays for boarding, breeding-related expenses, etc.

                        Pretty simple, really.
                        www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
                        "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
                        Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

                        Comment


                        • Totally different in each situation with each owner / lessee . stallion

                          Sato was with me for 3 years and I paid for everything on him and then his owner and I split 50/50 what remained of his breeding revenues

                          I leased Guaranteed Gold for 3 years before buying him and it was the same deal - all expenses were paid from the breeding revenues and then his owners and I split 50/50 what was left

                          I also looked at leasing a race bred TB stallion many years ago. In his case, I was going to pay everything and then I would "kick back" a set amount from each breeding to his owner. All was well and good until he arrived and we found he was a rig (never thought to ask THAT question before we did our deal!) so the deal was over and done with as soon as he arrived. To his credit, the owner (who really didnt know as the stallion had been standing at a large TB breeding operation, he never asked, they never told him and they just kept breeding mares to him each year) had him gelded when I explained why I couldnt stand him and then gave him away as a riding horse

                          So yes - every deal and arrangement would be different I would think ...
                          www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                          www.truecoloursproducts.com

                          True Colours Farm on Facebook

                          Comment


                          • Good thing they never gelded AP Indy and used him as a riding horse. Pretty darn successful stallion and also a rig.

                            Terri
                            COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

                            "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

                            Comment


                            • ^

                              Terri - the BIG difference was that this stallion I am referring to was marginal in what he was bringing in revenue wise and what it was costing to keep him where he was. Based on his race earnings, I could get him sight unseen approved as a CSHA stallion and target the Sport Horse market with him and then whatever race mares continued to come in would be "gravy".

                              I would NEVER stand a rig as a Sport Horse stallion and not declare it and most Mare Owners (unless I am wrong) would not knowingly breed to a rig as it is thought to be heritable, so I had the choice of not divulging an important fact about him or saying something and getting very few if any bookings to him

                              Plus - he was a total idiot to handle while he was here for the short period of time until he was collected and gone so it was kinda difficult to assess his temperament and if anyone did come to see him, they'd see a stallion screaming, rearing, acting up and acting like a total jackass and it sure wouldnt be conducive to getting Sport Horse mare owners to breed to him to produce a show prospect ...

                              And as well, the Barn Owner was adamant that he wouldnt stand and represent a rig without making that fact clear and well known and we both agreed it simply was not worth the hassle to do so
                              www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                              www.truecoloursproducts.com

                              True Colours Farm on Facebook

                              Comment


                              • Is it possible that ownership of the horses can't be or isn't being handled until all of Jill's litigation's are over? It would seem to be that large sums of $$ coming in at this point could be targeted by the current or past prosecution to be remanded for payments etc.
                                Keeping her pockets seemingly full of lint certainly makes it easier for her team to convince courts her business was affected ,etc etc etc.
                                "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Spectrum View Post
                                  You notice that neither Aloha's new owner nor Ashland Farm have made any big public announcements about the ownership.... . That would certainly explain Pikturesque's comment to RMHP that there "will be an announcement in a few weeks." It could also be that there are still financial dealings to be completed on Redwine's sale.
                                  Perhaps the lien on Aloha has to be settled first before his new owner make the announcement.

                                  Comment


                                  • I galloped more than a few AP Indy's. Not one a rig. All had 2. Not saying there weren't any, just that it couldn't have been too heritable. I know it's supposed to be. But I didn't see that. And I got on more than 1 or 2 over the years. Most in fact were drool worthy movers with looks to match.

                                    Terri
                                    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

                                    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

                                    Comment


                                    • Thank you for the replies. I figured there would be variations in the different contracts.
                                      I wonder if Ashland thought the Canadian mare owners would be "blinded" by all the chrome and not aware of the Jill B.'s debacle (since nobody really paid much attention to Daventry's post on EMG).
                                      The only positive about this is that the boys are well taken care of.

                                      I also wonder if the DA (or whoever it is) is working on all the complaints relating to the contracts/sales, etc. or is it wishful thinking still?

                                      Comment


                                      • It would not surprise me at all if she sold Aloha outright, as she always told me she was on the fence about him. I would be VERY surprised if she ever sold RW. I would bet money she still owns him and has leased him out for a year.
                                        Laurie

                                        Comment


                                        • What is a "rig"? I've never heard that term

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