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Biggest challenge for breeders in NA?

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  • Originally posted by showjumpers66 View Post
    I offered solutions in my previous posts, but here they are again ...

    1) Create a database similar to what is used in Germany that tracks breeding data (pedigree, production, inspection & test results) as well as sport results allowing for tracking and research.

    2) Create a desire to keep the original paperwork with the horse and correctly completed USEF number applications, especially in the hunter/jumper venues where this is the biggest problem, using incentive programs and better accountability for dishonest business practices.

    3) Develop a young horse competition series that is suitable to the horse's age and development, on par with the European championships to bring NA on a level playing field, focus on increasing visibility/recognition of young horses and young horse trainers/riders/breeders.

    4) Start young rider schools focused towards talented young riders WITHOUT means lead by experts in the industry offering young horse development programs at an economical value to breeders (yes, have young riders starting the young horses with the supervision of experts).
    Barb nailed it. And I will again stress the importance of #1 - breeders are very hampered without a robust database that ACCURATELY records bloodline info, and ties it in with performance results - and is accessible by breeders, etc., for research purposes.

    Comment


    • Via Diana Dodge, Paul Greenwood has developed just such a database for VA-breds.

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      • I think a "young horse" school was discussed in previous threads. While a great idea I'm not sure it would ever fly. And to have it running up to standards it would take an awful lot of money to be flying. Salaries. What should a young horse starter be making. Does he/she need her own insurance or will that be covered? Then all the experts. What will their salary be? Or is it just a revolving door of people offering up their time for the greater good? Then grooms and all the other overheads. So it's not going to be very economical.

        Comparing the process in Europe of starting young horses won't work. The big people have their own team. It's an assembly line. If you're the person with the young horse that doesn't deal with this type of process, then you will not be happy. But many horses are started also by people like myself and my husband. Small outfits to fit the individual. Except you quickly find out people don't give a crap how you do it as long as they get back a horse they can start training on ASAP. And as cheap as possible. Trust me its not worth it. For every person who actually appreciates what you do, you get 10 who moan about price. And those also can't understand why in the world I want at least 4 weeks up front. Never underestimate anyone. That same butter wouldn't melt seemingly caring person can be a right wagon when it's time to get paid. And they now have a nice horse that's riding. Truth is no matter how well you do this part of the business, people really just see it as the annoying part and only want cheap. I'm sure I could have a barn filled with horses if I did like others here and advertise the following: €500 all in broken and riding including teeth and shoes. That's for 6 weeks. I can't do it for that and have horses eating and bedded too. But more importantly I actually need to get paid. It's a business and so dare I say I need to live. It's an actual job and basically you get treated as if you should have chosen a different career. That's fine but people do need this service. I love what we do because its very rewarding. The people however always leave a sour taste in my mouth.

        And yet everyone wonders why nobody in their right mind would ever want this as a business. And also you will find twice a year everyone wants their horses all started at the same time. Spring and Fall. Not like a normal trainer who gets to keep year round business. If you don't have room, it's off to find someone else. So again hard to be a business with 2 big lulls.

        Terri
        COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

        "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

        Comment


        • Hyperionstud- just sent you a PM!

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          • Pony Club is an excellent training school which already exists. Most of our UL eventers learned at Pony Club, often retraining ottbs for their mounts. My mare's sire sired a tb who evented advanced, who was then bought by a GP Jumper rider. They have won a lot at GP. I think there is a connection.

            So Pony Club members could be a cost effective training idea for WB breeders.
            Last edited by Renascence; Feb. 15, 2013, 12:30 PM. Reason: spelling

            Comment


            • I know a lot of this is about getting exposure for breeders but also getting horses in a local area to be seen. What if we were to start FB groups (IE Mid Atlantic Hunter Breeders, California Jumpers etc) and network with each other to bring the horses to a central location for a buyer to look at? If it were a serious interest and I felt a horse I had fit I would absolutely trailer up to 3 hours or so. Even better if we could do a show case for multiple buyers (doesn't need to be huge I would trailer in for 3-4, or even 1 if I truly felt my horse would suit very well).

              I have referred people to breeders I know via this forum in the past and would do it again. We need to work together. I know my solution is very grass roots but I think it is a start

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              • I've also done many referrals to other breeders via FB and email but I really like the idea of regional stations at some farm or venue to trainer to with our prospects. Buyers love to have all prospects gathered at some nice location and psychologically having several or more good prospects to select from really does encourage a sale. It has worked for me several times via the MidAtlantic Hanoverian Breeders group.

                Comment


                • In Europe, most of the young horses are started and brought along by young riders under the supervision of the head trainer. Many of the International riders have a large number of horses in the pipeline buying foals who go to foal raisers than come to be started working their way up through the young horse classes until the ones that make the grade reach the upper levels. When you go to watch the competitions, you will see talented young riders on horses from strings of Marcus Ehning, Ludger Beerbaum, etc. The young riders don't typically grow up on made horses like they do in our country. This is what we need for developing riders here.

                  I do think we could make a school work. Start with one school and eventually branch out to three (east, central, west). Accept riders by application from 16 years and up. There are some really good online public charter schools, so they can continue their education. The biggest hurdle would be a facility that could house the riders as well as the horses offering large indoor and outdoor rings. I would suggest sponsorships/donations for the facility, tack, equipment, etc. Possibly run it as non-profit. If the riders each have 6 horses, then require that they do all the feeding, turn-out, stall cleaning, etc. for their horses. The riders do not get paid. They get housing and meals. Parents are responsible for spending money. Staff a barn/program manager and a grounds keeper. Good trainers have their own businesses that they can not leave, so rotate trainers through for short periods. Owners of the horses pay training costs which will cover the hay, feed, bedding, monthly overhead costs, and salaries. If there are enough horses, then the monthly fee should be very reasonable. Build the school where there is a solid "B" circuit for horses and riders to get show miles (making sure that there are classes appropriate for young horses or even creating a young horse series for that circuit). Owners of the horses also pay for showing expenses, but this should be minimal for haul in shows.

                  Comment


                  • I think that is a start, but there are so many breeders that need help with preparation and presentation. Some may know what needs to be done, but don't have the resources. Others need both education and resources. Just look at one of the sales sites such as warmbloods-for-sale.com and see how many terrible photos are being used to represent a horse.

                    Originally posted by magicteetango View Post
                    I know a lot of this is about getting exposure for breeders but also getting horses in a local area to be seen. What if we were to start FB groups (IE Mid Atlantic Hunter Breeders, California Jumpers etc) and network with each other to bring the horses to a central location for a buyer to look at? If it were a serious interest and I felt a horse I had fit I would absolutely trailer up to 3 hours or so. Even better if we could do a show case for multiple buyers (doesn't need to be huge I would trailer in for 3-4, or even 1 if I truly felt my horse would suit very well).

                    I have referred people to breeders I know via this forum in the past and would do it again. We need to work together. I know my solution is very grass roots but I think it is a start

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by showjumpers66 View Post

                      4) Start young rider schools focused towards talented young riders WITHOUT means lead by experts in the industry offering young horse development programs at an economical value to breeders (yes, have young riders starting the young horses with the supervision of experts).
                      Well that's exactly what used to happen
                      Up till the late 70's, early 80's many Jr riders and Adult Amateurs started their own horses under the supervision of their intructor ( NOT trainer).

                      And several of those riders won or placed well in the Medal or Maclay finals on horses they started.

                      And instructors taught, they didn't tune the horses up for a Jr rider or an Adult.

                      But things changed. Showing became year round. Instructors became trainers and wanted to show, not teach. So a ready made horse was needed. And off to Europe to buy ready mades. So simple, no training needed. No teaching of clients needed either. It became all about where to get access to a large supply of trained 3'6" and up horses.

                      And the WB made all this possible.

                      It still is possible to find capable people to start young horses. I'm amazed when posters claim they can't find anyone. I use two trainers who both are happy to deal with young horses. And for reasonable prices too....
                      Fan of Sea Accounts

                      Comment


                      • Silver Creek that is an extremely good point. Marketing and presentation is everything, I am not sure how we will make sure every thing is presentable... at the standardbred auctions I worked the horses get there days before and are prepped and cleaned up by the staff but that is cost prohibitive.

                        Comment


                        • Summer and I recognized the need for a database years ago and began the process of developing a solution. We have built a database that is very similar to the database used in Europe so that data can be easily integrated universally. It has the capability to pool data from registries and performance federations as well as media such as photos and videos. In doing so, it can be used to produce reports on many levels such as rider, breeder, owner, trainer, registry, and discipline. Phase one (sales listings and database platform) has been launched and phase two (merging of performance and breeding data) will be launched soon. This is just a brief overview, but we believe that it could be a solid foundation for implementing a one horse one number system and tracking mother lines in North American breeding. We understand the challenges that will arise, but are very excited to be taking a first step towards a resolution.

                          Originally posted by DownYonder View Post
                          Barb nailed it. And I will again stress the importance of #1 - breeders are very hampered without a robust database that ACCURATELY records bloodline info, and ties it in with performance results - and is accessible by breeders, etc., for research purposes.

                          Comment


                          • Money.

                            addicted.

                            win the lottery or a rich uncle.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by showjumpers66 View Post
                              I think that is a start, but there are so many breeders that need help with preparation and presentation. Some may know what needs to be done, but don't have the resources. Others need both education and resources. Just look at one of the sales sites such as warmbloods-for-sale.com and see how many terrible photos are being used to represent a horse.
                              fwiw, I have volunteered to help people with pictures and video. I have volunteered to help people do their websites (I am a Web Systems engineer). I am sure there are others that have, and no one ever takes me up on it. I think that people LIKE to complain and make excuses. When I go look at a horse I always have someone come with me and take video, ALWAYS. I also give that to sellers to use if they want.

                              There is always a solution if someone wants one. I have NEVER once seen a thread on here from someone asking for help getting pictures of video, lol. Wouldn't that be simple?
                              On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

                              Comment


                              • Yep!

                                Comment


                                • Btw if anyone has ideas or would like to help me get this set up for the Mid Atlantic area feel free to PM me. Other regions as well but trying to get a blueprint together.

                                  Comment


                                  • This is an older thread --- and I am bumping it up only because it is one of the threads that I reviewed to identify possible breeders with young hunter prospects -- 3 year olds or late stated 4 year olds. As someone who had diligently looked and researched for 4 months (still looking) a couple of observations:

                                    1. Even with help - and some people on this forum have gone out of their way to be helpful - it is very difficult to identify and then get information on breeders with horses that are suitable to look at (discipline, age, talent, pricing, etc)
                                    2. Even when identified, it is hard to put together a significant number of prospects in a location that justifies the cost of travel and time (the only place I have been able to put together more than 10 horses in a single location is Canada).

                                    A couple of thoughts

                                    1. A national directory of breeders and locations and purpose breeding - regardless of registry - would go a long way towards encouraging buyers to stay in the US
                                    2. Good current information, pictures and videos would be a great help. Websites may take some minimal expertise but creating albums on facebook does not

                                    Still interested in young hunter prospects - still looking....

                                    Comment


                                    • As to the web pages, it isn't that hard to learn. Although, as I say this, I'll admit ours is a few months behind . Many hours in the hay field this summer. BUT, Facebook is super easy. We have no trouble marketing under saddle youngsters, but not yet started ones are much harder to market. Still, our biggest challenge has been getting them with people who actually do something with them, and who keep the horses information "connected" to us.
                                      Patty
                                      www.rivervalefarm.com
                                      Follow us on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/River...ref=ts&fref=ts

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