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Hit a Brick Wall - Jumper Stallion Ideas Please!

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  • Hit a Brick Wall - Jumper Stallion Ideas Please!

    I have one mare that I torture myself with every year. I never, ever can get a good gut feel on her. Had one stallion that I was pretty certain on but I've talked myself out of that one. So, I'm hoping for some help!

    Here's my criteria...
    1) Fresh or frozen
    2) Proven international scope either from stallion, his offspring or ideally both. If a younger stallion, very strong producing mother line.
    3) Proven progenitor of strong topline
    4) Not hot or super sensitive
    5) More modern type, or at minimum, not heavy

    The mare herself is a light-footed athlete with excellent reflexes, very good rideabilty but is sensitive, very good jump, 3 very good gaits and a tremendous work ethic.

    Her bloodlines are a bit obscure... Pik Solo-Gigant-Wrede but she does come from a line of several generations of SPS mares. I'm not married to any registries or bloodlines, although I do tend toward Holsteiner and Dutch lines.
    Frustrated right now so any ideas are welcome! TIA!
    Last edited by baywithchrome2; Feb. 7, 2013, 12:13 PM. Reason: typo
    www.avenir-farm.com

  • #2
    While he doesn't match every aspect of your criteria to a tee, Carracci comes to mind. Love that guy.

    Comment


    • #3
      Depending on your budget, how about Balou du Rouet, or one of his sons. That is a very hot line right now.

      For Holsteiners, just about any horse whose name starts with a "C".

      I do not have any links anymore, but Google "European Warm Blood Jumper Sires" and you should find agents who sell sperm from a lot of famous stallions. That might start you thinking in new directions.

      I would love to breed to Presley Boy! (Or ChinChin. )
      "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

      Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by FairhavenSportHorses View Post
        While he doesn't match every aspect of your criteria to a tee, Carracci comes to mind. Love that guy.
        LOL! Yes, Carracci is on the list for her, especially since he's in the next pasture over from her. ;-)
        www.avenir-farm.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Lord Helpus View Post
          Depending on your budget, how about Balou du Rouet, or one of his sons. That is a very hot line right now.

          For Holsteiners, just about any horse whose name starts with a "C".

          I do not have any links anymore, but Google "European Warm Blood Jumper Sires" and you should find agents who sell sperm from a lot of famous stallions. That might start you thinking in new directions.

          I would love to breed to Presley Boy! (Or ChinChin. )
          "For Holsteiners just about any horse who's name starts with a "C"...

          Do you know how many bad stallions there are that start with a "C" ? Many more than good ones I can promise you that.

          There needs to be more targeted advice from folks who have actually seen the target. Example : A stallion like Nekton. While I'm absolutely not suggesting that he be used....he is a stallion that has and produces enormous scope and is known to shorten and strengthen the topline on most mares he breeds.

          The suggestion of Carrachi is ludicrous in my opinion simply for the mere fact that there is absolutely next to ZERO knowledge here regarding his foals and the mothers they came from.

          These are examples as to why better horses aren't bred in this country. Most breeders think they have identified what needs improving with their mare but most have absolutely no way of identifying which stallion(s) to select to improve the weaknesses.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by Bayhawk View Post
            "For Holsteiners just about any horse who's name starts with a "C"...

            Do you know how many bad stallions there are that start with a "C" ? Many more than good ones I can promise you that.

            There needs to be more targeted advice from folks who have actually seen the target. Example : A stallion like Nekton. While I'm absolutely not suggesting that he be used....he is a stallion that has and produces enormous scope and is known to shorten and strengthen the topline on most mares he breeds.

            The suggestion of Carrachi is ludicrous in my opinion simply for the mere fact that there is absolutely next to ZERO knowledge here regarding his foals and the mothers they came from.

            These are examples as to why better horses aren't bred in this country. Most breeders think they have identified what needs improving with their mare but most have absolutely no way of identifying which stallion(s) to select to improve the weaknesses.
            Reece, to a point, I whole heartedly agree with you. However,

            1) The suggestion of Carracci is not ludicous at all, which is why he is on my potential list for this mare. Carracci has offspring on the ground in Europe and 4 years worth of foal crops on the ground here. In virtually all of these cases, he has strongly stamped his offspring with his type, his strong topline and his amazing temperament. While the true measure of what scope he will throw is still to be determined, even with a small number of European foals, he already has a daughter competing in the 1.6m and the % of offspring that have done well in Young Horse competitions in Euope is impressive. His first US-born offspring are debuting in Ocala right now.

            2) I'm not barn blind and I know this mare and her mare family very well. I've spoken to her breeder, her rider, folks who've known other members of the mare family, and I keep in touch with the riders who own her offspring. I've bred her numerous times. I know what she is and I know what she brings to the breeding equation. I kept my criteria very specific as I just wanted some names in hopes that somebody would come up with a stallion I had not yet crossed off the list.

            As always, I value your insights, but you need to cut some of us a little slack that we are actually doing the necessary due diligence.

            Peace out! :-)
            www.avenir-farm.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by baywithchrome2 View Post
              Reece, to a point, I whole heartedly agree with you. However,

              1) The suggestion of Carracci is not ludicous at all, which is why he is on my potential list for this mare. Carracci has offspring on the ground in Europe and 4 years worth of foal crops on the ground here. In virtually all of these cases, he has strongly stamped his offspring with his type, his strong topline and his amazing temperament. While the true measure of what scope he will throw is still to be determined, even with a small number of European foals, he already has a daughter competing in the 1.6m and the % of offspring that have done well in Young Horse competitions in Euope is impressive. His first US-born offspring are debuting in Ocala right now.

              2) I'm not barn blind and I know this mare and her mare family very well. I've spoken to her breeder, her rider, folks who've known other members of the mare family, and I keep in touch with the riders who own her offspring. I've bred her numerous times. I know what she is and I know what she brings to the breeding equation. I kept my criteria very specific as I just wanted some names in hopes that somebody would come up with a stallion I had not yet crossed off the list.

              As always, I value your insights, but you need to cut some of us a little slack that we are actually doing the necessary due diligence.

              Peace out! :-)
              with all due respect........I admire the fact that you are trying to do your due dilligence but the fact remains that you have no idea what Carrachi is actually making because the oldest is just being started undersaddle.

              You will not know this until you see several in the ring ,know the mothers they came from and speak with the riders competing them .

              Good luck !

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by Bayhawk View Post
                with all due respect........I admire the fact that you are trying to do your due dilligence but the fact remains that you have no idea what Carrachi is actually making because the oldest is just being started undersaddle.

                You will not know this until you see several in the ring ,know the mothers they came from and speak with the riders competing them .

                Good luck !
                Again, I agree Reece, but every stallion has to start somewhere. Conformation, type, gait and temperament wise, Carracci is consistently getting it done with his US offspring, which is a very good start. And while things are just starting over here, Carracci's offspring in Europe have done quite well by their sire. Here are a couple of videos of his daughter China Blue:

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOE4UZlrbVA

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqS53lqGIRE

                I've found several other offspring, grand and great-grand-offspring that have done well in young horse competitions, MPTS, etc. So, while he may not have the quantity out there, his quality does seem to be shining through even in Europe.

                In the meantime, now that he is standing to the public, he'll have a very good size foal crop this year and next from a diverse group of mares so bigger and bolder conclusions can be made about Carracci as a sire.

                For now though, can we put Carracci to bed? I adore the ol' man, but he's on the possible list and that's not going to change. I'd REALLY love to hear some other names so I can research them for a fit with the mare in question.
                www.avenir-farm.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by baywithchrome2 View Post
                  Again, I agree Reece, but every stallion has to start somewhere. Conformation, type, gait and temperament wise, Carracci is consistently getting it done with his US offspring, which is a very good start. And while things are just starting over here, Carracci's offspring in Europe have done quite well by their sire. Here are a couple of videos of his daughter China Blue:

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOE4UZlrbVA

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqS53lqGIRE

                  I've found several other offspring, grand and great-grand-offspring that have done well in young horse competitions, MPTS, etc. So, while he may not have the quantity out there, his quality does seem to be shining through even in Europe.

                  In the meantime, now that he is standing to the public, he'll have a very good size foal crop this year and next from a diverse group of mares so bigger and bolder conclusions can be made about Carracci as a sire.

                  For now though, can we put Carracci to bed? I adore the ol' man, but he's on the possible list and that's not going to change. I'd REALLY love to hear some other names so I can research them for a fit with the mare in question.
                  Hey I'm a fan. We need this Caretino son here if he's a good one. Lets be clear on that.

                  I'm a realist and you need to prove to me your ability as an inheritor. In order to decide if he is an inheritor , many children must be evaluated. Just sayin....

                  Good luck in the search for a mate for your mare.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't know if any of these will work but my favorite Jumpers are:

                    Catoki
                    Landor S
                    Lordanos
                    Monte Bellini
                    Perigueux
                    Valentino (Now or Never M)
                    Viscount

                    Good luck with your breeding. ��
                    It's not true that I had nothing on. I had the radio on.”
                    ? Marilyn Monroe

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bluemoonfarms View Post
                      I don't know if any of these will work but my favorite Jumpers are:

                      Catoki
                      Landor S
                      Lordanos
                      Monte Bellini
                      Perigueux
                      Valentino (Now or Never M)
                      Viscount

                      Good luck with your breeding. ��
                      Have you or know someone who has used Monte Bellini frozen semen?
                      "Sometimes you just have to shut up and color."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have no knowledge of his frozen semen. If you google him I am sure you could find that info. Monte Bellini does have his own Facebook Page. Just search Monte Bellini in Facebook. Ask the agent that is selling his frozen semen also. Most will give you honest info on the stallion's pregnancies. Good luck. ����
                        It's not true that I had nothing on. I had the radio on.”
                        ? Marilyn Monroe

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          While he doesn't fit your criteria since he's as yet not well proven, at least take a look at Hunter in California. Heraldik son. Holsteiner stamm 3317. Dam is Fafnia.
                          http://www.horsetelex.nl//horses/pedigree/129468
                          "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                          Thread killer Extraordinaire

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Cassini II.

                            http://www.foxfirefarm.us/pages/verb.../cassini2.html

                            http://www.sporthorse-data.com/sirepages.htm?id=345371

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlMAqnLI994
                            http://regcorkumlive.blogspot.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I really like Hidalgo at Hyperion.. he is a young stallion but I love the way he jumps around.. and he is by Darco out of a proven KWPN dam line..

                              Just something different..
                              Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
                              " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
                              Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I also like Con Caletto..

                                http://concaletto.com/concaletto.html
                                Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
                                " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
                                Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  One other thought.. Fox Fire's new stallion Cancara.. he is a Cassini I son out of stamm 162..


                                  Just offering some out of the box stallions that are not talked about much..
                                  Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
                                  " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
                                  Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by beowulf
                                    Judgement would fit all of your criteria.. His offspring abound, and are successful in EV and Jumping/Hunter circuit. I've been keeping my eye on him for a couple of years because I like his sire, Consul.. He (Judgement) seems to throw toplines based on the mother, from what I've seen of his offspring - as he does have a little longer of a back than I'm fond of - however, that says very little for his jumping merit. (:

                                    What I TRULY like about Judgement/Consul is that both were remarkably sound throughout their careers - despite the vast amount of effort asked of them. I should also add that he has a reputation for "sensible" horses without the "dumb" or "ostensible" which always makes any offspring project a delight.

                                    http://www.ironspringfarm.com/stalli...gement-isf/805

                                    Either way, good luck with finding a stud!
                                    I have a judgement gelding that is big and beautiful with 3 white stockings and a blaze and is always catching people's eye. He was out of a fabulous mare that was only 15.3 and he is 17.1 at age 6! Great head on his shoulders and easy to work with despite the dam being a little hot, he is the most naturally balanced horse I have ever ridden ... Having said that Im breeding this mare once more this year and Judgement is not on my list. If I bred for the Hunter ring he would still be in the running but my Judgement baby is big beautiful, slow, and jumps in great form but the extra effort needed in the jumper ring is just not there. Dont get me wrong he has great form and technique but does the bare minimum to get from take off to landing point haha. He is going to make a perfect Eq horse in my opinion...

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Monte Bellini is available at http://landgestuet-sachsen-anhalt.de...ellini_LSA.htm frozen (per dose 550 €) and at the moment (just for 8 weeks!) also fresh (1200 €)!

                                      Quality of frozen semen seems to be not that good...

                                      I guess this is your mare?
                                      http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10689165

                                      Except of Pik As and a little influence over Marcio and Abglanz, there is no TB in the first generations, so this could be a problem with Monte Bellini. He goes well with mares who carry blood.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Ask not what a stallion can do to improve your mare, but ask yourself what your mare can do to improve the stallion.

                                        Choose wisely by giving your mare the most credit and then go for there.

                                        Cheers!
                                        Hyperion Stud, LLC.
                                        Europe's Finest, Made in America
                                        WWW.HYPERIONSTUD.com
                                        Standing Elite and Approved Stallions

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