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How as Breeders do you feel about this development.

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  • How as Breeders do you feel about this development.

    Is the development of a Breeders council a good thing. Is the HSUS involvement a pro/con?

    Does being responsible mean /include having to sigh a contract that states you will ALWAYS take back one of the animals you bred and sold.

    http://www.thehorse.com/articles/312...council-formed
    46
    Yes I believe the HSUS involved breeders council is a good for horse breeders.
    2.17%
    1
    No I disagree
    56.52%
    26
    I like the idea but am not found of the HSUS's involvement
    41.30%
    19
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

  • #2
    Originally posted by Lynnwood View Post
    Is the development of a Breeders council a good thing. Is the HSUS involvement a pro/con?

    Does being responsible mean /include having to sigh a contract that states you will ALWAYS take back one of the animals you bred and sold.

    http://www.thehorse.com/articles/312...council-formed
    I think that if/when you aren't responsible for things, ultimately, someone else will step in and dictate what you will do. To avoid that, when you see there is a problem with how and where things are going, as an industry we need to take responsibility and head it off, make changes, make corrections, GET INVOLVED to correct it before someone else makes the decisions, makes the corrections, gets involved and changes the direction perhaps in a way that you may not agree with, may not like, or may be the end of the industry as you/we know it.
    Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
    Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

    Comment


    • #3
      GREAT ASSESSMENT AND COMMENT, KATHY!!! I agree -- if you see something bad happening to an animal or a situation or an animal needing help -- you ARE responsible! Yes, you are -- they can't help themselves and if you know it and ignore it you are part of the problem.
      PennyG

      Comment


      • #4
        Once a law is in place, it's almost impossible to have removed. The key to responsibility of any kind is self-confidence that the free-enterprise system works for all and that one is secure in that system. We certainly have problems now, in the broadest economic and political sense. A good, good education, even if not through school, is every person's responsibility and right so that we can learn from the past, realize what this country was meant to be and how it was meant to work, and learn what it takes to face the future. Once a body legislates away one's rights, they are almost unrecoverable, and those rights ARE safeguards of our freedom.

        I very much agree with Kathy's analysis. And, no, I don't want an outside body interfering with my right to own, breed, and sell my horses.

        Diane Halpin/Laurel Leaf Hanoverians: Facebook
        Last edited by dianehalpin; Jan. 28, 2013, 11:26 PM.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Sorry for the poll <found>/<fond>apparently my phone likes to interpret my thoughts. / I robot.
          "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

          Comment


          • #6
            Watch the pledge list will be used by H$U$ to hunt down all those "evil" breeders. The only animal safer than a dead animal is one which was never born in their animal rights agenda.

            Comment


            • #7
              No, I don't agree with it. I don't want anyone to tell me if I can or cannot breed, if I can sell my horse and if I do that I have to take it back once someone else no longer wants it or can afford it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hmmm... I don't see where's the problem? I read it very quickly, but as I read it, it's an entirely volunteer movement. Ie. You can decide to join or not.

                We have a similar initiative in QC and all you have to do as a breeder is to pledge to provide adequate care, breed only to improve upon breeding stock and to provide full health records to buyers... I pledged and it didn't even hurt.
                www.EquusMagnificus.ca
                Breeding & Sales
                Facebook | YouTube

                Comment


                • #9
                  HSUS does not believe people should own or have animals. HSUS in the canine world euthanizes more than they save. I would not support anything that HSUS is involved in.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Fourbeats View Post
                    No, I don't agree with it. I don't want anyone to tell me if I can or cannot breed, if I can sell my horse and if I do that I have to take it back once someone else no longer wants it or can afford it.
                    Or has ruined it.
                    I have a Fjord! Life With Oden

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      FWIW, the "responsible breeders list" was started on an independent website several years ago. The HSUS purchased the list from the owner of the original website where the list had been posted.
                      Dawn Jones-Low
                      Faerie Court Farm
                      facebook page

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If the HSUS is involved, it's not going to end well, that's how I feel about them. They are just a small step away from PETA IMHO.

                        I think the concept is a good one - I just disagree that it will go well with the HSUS at the helm. But, we'll have to wait and see. What will be their definitions of "responsible breeding" and "overbreeding"? Somehow I can totally see then saying anyone who breeds more than 2 a year to be "overbreeding" lol
                        ______________________________
                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I don't agree with having to take back an animal I bred and SOLD. Say a breeder sells a nice horse at a fair price. That horse has lived up to its potential, given several people a lot of pleasure and maybe some prizes. Now it's time for the horse to retire and suddenly it's the breeder's responsibility? Or maybe some idiot ruined/lamed the horse.

                          Not in my book. IMHO the buyer is responsible. If as a breeder I felt that I was responsible for the lifespan of the horse I wouldn't sell her I would lease her

                          ETA:What, no more red thumbs?
                          I wasn't always a Smurf
                          Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                          "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                          The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

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                          • #14
                            I looked at the list -- it was originally started via the FHOTD blog. It's disappointing that the list made it into the hands of the HSUS -- it's being used to make it appear those breeders all support the HSUS's initiative -- when that's not what anyone originally signed up for.

                            Plus, the original list did NOT include a promise to take back any horse you'd ever bred. In fact, many of the people on the list are looking only for one or two specific horses they may have bred or owned; some are just looking for anything free of a certain breed (there's someone who'll take "any Friesian" and another who will take "any free horse in the area"); and many of the people have requirements before they'll take a horse back -- must be sound, must be okay for a trail program, etc.

                            As far as responsible breeding, there are people on the list who I know are irresponsible backyard breeders, and then there are people on the list who admit to breeding grade horses, which I think most of us would agree is also irresponsible.

                            In other words, that list is not a guarantee of people who'll take back ANY horse they bred, nor is it a list ONLY of responsible breeders.

                            It was started on FHOTD with good intentions -- there are active responsible breeders from this board who are on the list (myself included) -- but it was not originally affiliated with the HSUS and it wasn't originally compiled as per the HSUS's guidelines (ie, breeders who promise to take back any horse they bred.)

                            As long as I have the resources, I would take back any horse I bred, or help the owner sell/place it themselves. However I don't think it's fair or realistic to expect breeders to take back any/every horse they ever bred, no questions asked, any time -- because if this were the case we'd lease them and not sell them.

                            There are also other practical considerations -- when someone dumps a nice horse from a good program, it's usually because it's old and unsound. I'm forty and still breeding horses, but I'm not sure I'll still be doing this when I'm in my 60's, so how could I promise without a doubt to take back every foal I've ever produced once it's old and unsound and unwanted, when by that time I'll be old and unsound and possibly retired myself?

                            -Gigha
                            River Oaks Farm - home of the Elite Book Friesian Sporthorse Grand Prix dressage stallion Lexington - sire of four consecutive FSA National Inspection Champions. Endorsing the FSA.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This. I am also on that list, but I did not sign up with HSUS, even though I was once very active in the organization. Back in the mid 70s HSUS was very helpful in completely transforming "animal control" in my county from a good old boys torture club to an ethically run shelter that truly helped homeless animals. My hubby and I were part of the effort. But, I did not sign on with HSUS via this list.

                              Originally posted by RiverOaksFarm View Post
                              I looked at the list -- it was originally started via the FHOTD blog. It's disappointing that the list made it into the hands of the HSUS -- it's being used to make it appear those breeders all support the HSUS's initiative -- when that's not what anyone originally signed up for.

                              Plus, the original list did NOT include a promise to take back any horse you'd ever bred. In fact, many of the people on the list are looking only for one or two specific horses they may have bred or owned; some are just looking for anything free of a certain breed (there's someone who'll take "any Friesian" and another who will take "any free horse in the area"); and many of the people have requirements before they'll take a horse back -- must be sound, must be okay for a trail program, etc.

                              As far as responsible breeding, there are people on the list who I know are irresponsible backyard breeders, and then there are people on the list who admit to breeding grade horses, which I think most of us would agree is also irresponsible.

                              In other words, that list is not a guarantee of people who'll take back ANY horse they bred, nor is it a list ONLY of responsible breeders.

                              It was started on FHOTD with good intentions -- there are active responsible breeders from this board who are on the list (myself included) -- but it was not originally affiliated with the HSUS and it wasn't originally compiled as per the HSUS's guidelines (ie, breeders who promise to take back any horse they bred.)

                              As long as I have the resources, I would take back any horse I bred, or help the owner sell/place it themselves. However I don't think it's fair or realistic to expect breeders to take back any/every horse they ever bred, no questions asked, any time -- because if this were the case we'd lease them and not sell them.

                              There are also other practical considerations -- when someone dumps a nice horse from a good program, it's usually because it's old and unsound. I'm forty and still breeding horses, but I'm not sure I'll still be doing this when I'm in my 60's, so how could I promise without a doubt to take back every foal I've ever produced once it's old and unsound and unwanted, when by that time I'll be old and unsound and possibly retired myself?

                              -Gigha
                              Mary Lou
                              http://www.homeagainfarm.com

                              https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

                              Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Anyone that joins this is an idiot. Those that would feed the alligator will get eaten when the other food runs out.
                                Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

                                "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by carolprudm View Post
                                  I don't agree with having to take back an animal I bred and SOLD. Say a breeder sells a nice horse at a fair price. That horse has lived up to its potential, given several people a lot of pleasure and maybe some prizes. Now it's time for the horse to retire and suddenly it's the breeder's responsibility? Or maybe some idiot ruined/lamed the horse.

                                  Not in my book. IMHO the buyer is responsible. If as a breeder I felt that I was responsible for the lifespan of the horse I wouldn't sell her I would lease her
                                  Exactly why I would have a problem with signing such a promise. Why should breeders who have done their part; made good breeding decisions, raised up healthy youngsters and then sell them at fair prices, have to fund the horses retirement? Why isn't that the job of the people who enjoyed the horse during it's productive years or the ones who ruined the horse?

                                  I don't agree with the idea that just because I brought a horse into the world, I'm ultimately responsible for it despite all the things others may have done with/to it in the intervening years. Heck, breeders can't even get credit for being the breeder of a horse a lot of the time and yet now we are expected to provide a way out for others when Dobbin no longer suits their purpose? Nope, disagree.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I will have NOTHING to do with HSUS. Take a look at their financials. They are one of the most TOP HEAVY non-profits in the US. A pitence of their money goes directly to help animals - they rest goes to big salaries, fancy offices, mega buck advertising and those jackets and junk they give away. In my opinion they ARE NOT about the animals - they ARE about control.
                                    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
                                    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I signed up on that list way-back-when, as I would take back any horse I've bred. That being said, I really, really don't want to be affiliated with HSUS in any way. Wonder if there is a way to get your name OFF the list...
                                      Already excited about our 2016 foals! Expecting babies by Indoctro, Diamant de Semilly, Zirocco Blue and Calido!
                                      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        When you drain the swamp.........don't wonder why you are now up to your ass in alligators.

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