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How as Breeders do you feel about this development.

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  • Original Poster

    #21
    I was wondering the same thing Hillside H Ranch. What does it now mean for those who are currently on the list but are so under now what amounts to false pretenses. Also now the HSUS has your names and can identify you as breeders should their plans become more malicious or nefarious.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

    Comment


    • #22
      Instead of putting all the pressure/blame on the breeders, I think the focus should be on responsible horse ownership period.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by Fourbeats View Post
        Instead of putting all the pressure/blame on the breeders, I think the focus should be on responsible horse ownership period.
        How would breeder's feel about committing to a euthanasia fund for each animal they breed to ensure that it doesn't end up in a slaughter house. No one would be stuck with an unusable animal but breeder's would still be doing right by the animals they brought into this world. Sort of modified version of what reputable dog breeder's do but altered to account for the fact that horse's are expensive and unusable ones can't be rehomed as pets.

        Comment


        • #24
          Why is it the responsibility of the breeder to euthanize the horse? What about the people who had the enjoyment of using the horse for x amount of years(hopefully) before it became necessary for euthanasia responsible for making sure the horse doesn't end up in a slaughter house? Would we expect them to contribute to the fund as well?

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Fourbeats View Post
            Why is it the responsibility of the breeder to euthanize the horse? What about the people who had the enjoyment of using the horse for x amount of years(hopefully) before it became necessary for euthanasia responsible for making sure the horse doesn't end up in a slaughter house? Would we expect them to contribute to the fund as well?
            Of course the owners who used the animal last have the primary responsibility, but we all know that they often don't do the right thing. So the question becomes, does a breeder have any responsibility at all to an animal after it is sold? Does the fact that you created a horse in order to profit impose any responsibility on you? You also used the horse. You weren't the last person to use it but you were one of the people in the life of the horse to use if for your own purposes. I know many support slaughter so I can understand why those breeders would feel no responsibility to a horse they bred but what about those of you who oppose horse slaughter? Do you feel any responsiblity to serve as the horse's last resort? And again, I'm not talking about funding the horse's retirement, I'm talking about a fixed cost dignified end to something you created.

            Comment


            • #26
              These questions and answers should belong to each individual breeder and do NOT belong in the public domain, outside of an open discussion which can be enlightening. It is up to the individual - breeder, owner, parent of young owner, etc. - how to deal with a retiring or unsound or unwanted horse. I think most breeders do feel responsible for "their creations" and most would be happy to have a voice in giving "their creations" the best retirment or end of life, but I feel very strongly that this not be a legislated decision by any outside group, particularly HSUS.

              Comment


              • #27
                I would take back any horse I ever owned, bred or trained with no questions asked. I once rescued a broodmare who ended up colicing and dying before I ever got a foal out of her but that didn't stop me from buying one of her foal's as a broken down race horse out of the kill pen. Once they are in my barn or I guess related to someone in my barn they are mine forever in my heart and I would never let one of mine go without. I will not pay for them except in the case of buying them from the kill pen but will take them no questions asked. That said HSUS sucks and I don't want to be affiliated with them in any manner.
                McDowell Racing Stables

                Home Away From Home

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by NCRider View Post
                  Of course the owners who used the animal last have the primary responsibility, but we all know that they often don't do the right thing. So the question becomes, does a breeder have any responsibility at all to an animal after it is sold?
                  No, the question does not become that. Because just like those horse owners - some breeders will do the right thing, and some won't. I find it somewhat fascinating that you are interested in legislating the breeder to do the right thing ,but not the horse owner.

                  I worry about it every single day - literally. Will my husband and I be able to keep up the farm long enough to bury my two retired broodmares? Am I going to have to euth them before they are really ready due to the fact we CAN'T keep the place up any more? What will I do when only one mare is left? Get her a companion? Euth her too? What happens if I have to step in to rescue one I've bred and I don't have the farm anymore? What happens when I'm a widow, living in long term care facility that has eaten up all my savings? What then? These worries do a very good job of consuming me.

                  I did what I could to breed useful horses with a good temperament, the very best care possible, and a good solid start in life. I do feel I have a SHARED responsibility to the horses I bred, but that responsibility is SHARED by the people who rode and enjoyed them. God knows there was no profit, and I ended up subsidizing that great horse they are riding.

                  Here's what it comes down to... you do what you can.

                  (And since we are talking about shared responsibility, how about euthanasia/disposal tax on every single horse sale - like the recycling fee on motor oil?)
                  "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    I too have taken back horses I've owned in the past due to the owners getting into difficult situations. My mistake was in buying them back instead of offering homes for them, neither was the same horse that I had sold in regards to their ridablity or soundness.

                    If I knew a horse I had bred was in trouble of going to slaughter, yea, I'd try to get it back or pay for it to be PS myself. Not because I think there is anything wrong with slaughter itself, I don't. However, until it is seriously revamped and the whole process made more humane for horses, it's not someplace I'd want one of mine to end up at.

                    I strongly agree with Diane, that this issue should not be decided by some outside group, especially not the HSUS. As far as responsibility, honestly, I can't answer that question. I think that is a subject that should be up to the individual and not something that is forced upon people.

                    I also don't see where this could even be enforced, how does one keep track of who the original breeder is? We constantly hear about horses "losing" their papers and getting new names. Woops, there goes the breeder information. This is even assuming the horses are registered and there is a way to track them.

                    The only way I think such a fund might work is if the buyer, at the time of purchase, paid into it. They would be the one who had the horse at the time of such a needed service. Make it like a buyers premium type thing except it goes into some sort of euthanasia fund and if they have to use it while they own the horse, the money is available. If they don't, once they sell the horse, they get a refund of it and the next buyer pays into it.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      In the dog breeding world, it IS the breeder who is expected to take back an animal they bred if it finds itself in trouble. But there is a HUGE difference in the culture, and longevity, of dog vs horse. I agree that in the case of horses, the buyer(s) need to step up, most logically the last owner, to be sure these animals are ok until they die. There is the potential for a MUCH longer list if owners for a horse that lives 20-30 years, than there is for a dog the lives around 15 years. A dog is assumed to go to its forever home when it is a wiggly 8 week old puppy. That isn't the case with horses.

                      Having said that, as the last resort, any reputable horse breeder should be willing to either take back, or help find a suitable home for, any animal they have bred, if that animal is in trouble. But not as a dumping ground for owners who just don't want to be inconvenienced.

                      I also would never support anything attached to HSUS.
                      Laurie

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        There IS responsibility for breeders AND owners with respect to the welfare of the horses they have bred and owned. Its a pledge, not a law. It focuses on breeders, but owners are responsible for their horses' welfare, too. Its a just a first step to advocating for responsibility and making it part of the culture. There is a warmblood breeding farm in OK that has a "Safe Trip Home' pledge and its the same idea. With the economic crash following the over-breeding of the early 2000s, it is not surprising there is focus on this.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          "Having said that, as the last resort, any reputable horse breeder should be willing to either take back, or help find a suitable home for, any animal they have bred, if that animal is in trouble."

                          Or contribute to euthanize or contribute to a fund to make it affordable to euthanize? That seems to be a reality not being addressed.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by omare View Post
                            "Having said that, as the last resort, any reputable horse breeder should be willing to either take back, or help find a suitable home for, any animal they have bred, if that animal is in trouble."

                            Or contribute to euthanize or contribute to a fund to make it affordable to euthanize? That seems to be a reality not being addressed.
                            That is implied in my taking a horse back no questions asked. I never said I would take them back and keep them forever, I said I would take them back. If they are not in a position to be useful to someone else I absolutely would euthanize. Thankfully I haven't been in that situation yet but it is something I have put a lot of thought into.
                            McDowell Racing Stables

                            Home Away From Home

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by lauriep View Post
                              In the dog breeding world, it IS the breeder who is expected to take back an animal they bred if it finds itself in trouble. But there is a HUGE difference in the culture, and longevity, of dog vs horse. I agree that in the case of horses, the buyer(s) need to step up, most logically the last owner, to be sure these animals are ok until they die. There is the potential for a MUCH longer list if owners for a horse that lives 20-30 years, than there is for a dog the lives around 15 years. A dog is assumed to go to its forever home when it is a wiggly 8 week old puppy. That isn't the case with horses.

                              Having said that, as the last resort, any reputable horse breeder should be willing to either take back, or help find a suitable home for, any animal they have bred, if that animal is in trouble. But not as a dumping ground for owners who just don't want to be inconvenienced.

                              I also would never support anything attached to HSUS.
                              I have three retired horses. One of them will be 35 in April. They are MY responsibility, not the breeders, not a prior owner.
                              All three had great show careers and they deserve a comfy life.
                              It's really that simple.

                              I would never support HSUS or PETA.
                              Fan of Sea Accounts

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