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Looking for top dressage sires known to pass on great temperament...

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  • #41
    Originally posted by sid View Post
    PSA...regardless of the stallion's character..always, always look for what you want behaviorly in the dam. Not the sire.
    I kind of disagree a bit with this statement. In fact I wouln't say always as there are stallions known to stamp their gets in that direction.

    I for myself prefer to have nice temperament mares around me. I mean I do breeding because I love horses so why suffer and endure a difficult mare.

    But I once had a mare that had bad character. She was beautiful, wonderfull mover, fast learner, love love to work and show, highly focused on her job and enjoyed it but didn't like to be around people otherwise. Work with her or leave her alone. THe only time that you could enjoy her was when she was in heat, Dr Jenkill and Mr(s) Hyde.

    I would have liked to have a clone of her but with a nice attitude around people so I bred her to a stallion with that in mind.

    This mare was manageable until she had her foal... then she became nasty and even dangerous when free but always very submissive when you caught her. I had to attach her in her stall if I wanted to be around the foal as she wouldn't allow me to touch him... However this foal could be qualified as my second most people oriented foal.

    SO different from his dam, just a clone of his dad, conformation, color and character. First thing obvious is that he was friendly, just wanted to be with people. He would follow me everywhere, almost a nuisance. Loved to be cudle, brush, taken care of; she was a bit nervous, he was bomb proof; she was wary, he was confident; she liked to work, he was a bit lazy and so on.

    I was planning to wean him early so he would be less imprint by his mom but despite all her attemp to be nasty, nothing could influence his profound nature and stayed equal to himself, just being a living teddy bear.

    I didn't keep this mare but I wouldn't rule out a mare with a lot of quality because she has bad temper but would make sure to find the right stallion.
    Suzanne
    bloomingtonfarm.com
    Breeder of Royal Dutch Sport Horse

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    • #42
      Royal Prince offspring so easy going

      Bred twice to Royal Prince, so content, easy going, offspring. Also bred 3x to Waterford (wolkensteinII-Matcho) incredible work ethic. Sold two to riders and kept one myself. Both riders said they were a dream to work with. Great work ethic.
      Sandpiperfarm.com
      Sport Horse Breeding

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      • #43
        We bred one of our mare in 2006 to Brentano II and got in 2007 a lovely filly. Despite being on the smaller size (she might be 16.0 hh in her "tall days", but probably more around 15.3 3/4hh...) - and she's the only one out of this mare that won't be over 16.2hh - she is very nicely behaved and we sold her in 2011 to a lady who is an amateur rider who wants to have a nice looking, nice moving mare, with a brain.

        The mare was bred at 3 and at 4, so she got 2 foals. She left our farm in fall of 2012 and a little later, she begun training under saddle, as a long 5yo. We backed her at 3 (sat on the mare, hubby leaded me 2 or 3 circles in the round pen) and she was like... "whatever". :P Then we sat on her again in fall 2011, while she was in foal of her 2nd baby, and had her w-t-c on the lunge line with me in the saddle (3 or 4 times max?), then we walked without the lunge line couple of times, with some strides at trot. Then we left her on that, so she can concentrate on her pregnancy over the winter.

        Here's a video taken in 2011, 2nd time without a lunge line. Video is boring I know, we only walk and stop and turn around for the first minute or 2, but you see that she could not care less, and I am NOT a seasonned rider... if I rode 12 times in the last 3 years, it's good! Young mom, full time job, etc. Then, after the part where she is walked under saddle, you will she how laid back she is on the ground. I really enjoyed raising this mare. She is very people oriented and love childrens too.
        www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4J8LXscb8E

        Then fast foward to her 15th training session with her trainer, January 2013: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iLVBf64rb4&sns=em

        Trainer love her attitude, willingness to work and how fast she catches up (as there's sometimes some bias against older horses vs starting them under saddle). Her owner is enchantered. I know there's probably some exceptions, but I would definitely say that Brentano II is one of the great for what you are looking for. He sired Intl GP dressage horses, as well as a ton of solid amateurs horses, and all in between. Not always the fancy extravagant movers, but great riding horses. Of course, the mare WILL play a role in the final result. And I can't agree more with bloomingtonfarm when he/she says:

        I for myself prefer to have nice temperament mares around me. I mean I do breeding because I love horses so why suffer and endure a difficult mare.
        All this to say that Alexandra's advice is a wise one. You need to go for stallions who are proven to pass on their great under saddle aptitudes, willingness to work, nice temperaments easy for amateurs etc.
        Last edited by Spike; Jan. 31, 2013, 12:31 PM.
        Les Écuries d'Automne, Québec, Canada
        Visit EdA's Facebook page!

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        • #44
          When breeding for a competition horse I would hope that a stallion that has produced what you want from a variety of mares would be important. If you want a grand prix dressage horse as a result of the mating, it would be important, to me at least, that the stallion has produced that already.
          Anne
          -------
          "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist

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          • #45
            While a good temperament in both parents is desirable there is no guarantee that the offspring will inherit it.
            I have a coming 3-year-old filly whose dam was just about the sweetest mare anyone could wish for. The sire was from the Donnerhall line and also known to produce good temperaments. So imagine my surprise when I ended up with a fire-breathing dragon. Nothing bad had ever happened to this filly but as a yearling and two-year-old she was nasty and borderline dangerous. Eventually I hired a cowboy because I was this close to putting her down despite the fact that she is a gorgeous young horse. Even the cowboy who is used to difficult horses admitted that she was one of the most difficult horses he'd ever encountered.
            I have to say her attitude has gotten much better and there is hope that in time she will become a decent citizen though never an in-your-pocket horse like her mother. I guess that the alignment of genes just didn't quite work out.

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            • #46
              Yes well selecting parents who generally tend to transmit their good temperament to their foals is more like putting the odds in your favor of getting the same temperament, but never a guarantee. Genetics are not 100% predictable. It's like driving. When you follow the speed limits, the road rules, you buckle up your belt, you don't drink and drive or don't text and drive, you have better chance to not get into an accident. But... accidents still happens to text book driver. Heck, my car has been severly damaged when a 10wheeler backed on it (never saw me I guess... despite me being behind him for the last 5 kms) while I was waiting behind him for my turn at a stop sign!!! Sh*t happens.
              Les Écuries d'Automne, Québec, Canada
              Visit EdA's Facebook page!

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              • #47
                I've bred quite a few Schroeder's and they are throwing great temperaments. Now that they are old enough to ride, the riders are loving them to and very trainable and personable. By far Navarone is unbeatable in throwing temperament. He throws all arounders and competed to Grand Prix dressage himself. 007 and any of the Rubenstein lines are good for it too.
                Majestic Gaits-Dutch Warmbloods,#1 USEF Dressage Sporthorse Breeder. #1 KWPN-NA Jumpers.Standing Navarone,Schroeder,Dante MG.VDL Frozen.

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                • #48
                  Most of the posts here report about their foals - For me it is much more important tho take into consideration what I hear about the offspring under saddle ! Not about foal behaviour. We want a riding horse, not just a horse to cuddle lead around and to look at...

                  Exactly. A friendly foal does not always make a great riding horse. In my opinion there is very little correlation between friendliness of a foal and good rideability.
                  www.svhanoverians.com

                  "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Donella View Post
                    Most of the posts here report about their foals - For me it is much more important tho take into consideration what I hear about the offspring under saddle ! Not about foal behaviour. We want a riding horse, not just a horse to cuddle lead around and to look at...

                    Exactly. A friendly foal does not always make a great riding horse. In my opinion there is very little correlation between friendliness of a foal and good rideability.
                    Agree. Regardless of the temperament, it still comes down to good training from birth to understanding and excepting the concept of "working", compliance and willingness.
                    www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
                    "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
                    Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

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                    • Original Poster

                      #50
                      My primary goal is a good riding horse.

                      My mare had four full siblings, three of which I knew personally and the fourth was raised by a very experienced breeder I know and rode with for several years. She had purchased the dam with the foal in-utero. The five full siblings, my mare included, ranged from decent to fantastic under saddle. Three had good to great character on the ground and two of them were mean-as-a-snake, fire-breathing-dragons (love that description HickoryHill and will be adding it to my dictionary!) full on attack horses on the ground. One of the mean ones was owned by a close friend of mine and we rode and trained together. There was no going in that horse's stall unless she was facing you and then you didn't dare take your eyes off her for even a second. From the crossties, she once bit a passer-by on the boob so hard that the lady had to get stitches. Under saddle was a completely different story. She was so great to ride that it more than made up for her no-cuddle-zone. The breeder who had purchased the in-utero sibling described him as the meanest horse she had ever handled.

                      I know there's a mean gene on my mare's side. Her first two offspring didn't get it - much. My girl by her can be a pretty bitchy in the stall, but it's mostly bluster. After she works, she's a doll. Breeding is a crap shoot. I'm trying to align the odds in my favor. I'm looking for a stallion who will give me the best chance of getting a good riding horse.

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