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Why breeders don't always post sales prices on websites?

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  • #21
    I have inquired on private treaty and "call for price" situations several times in the past, and they have always been much higher than my price range. One was an older maiden mare retired from sport with an injury, and I was thinking maybe they would give her away for a fairly reasonable price but wanted a good home so didn't post it - nope, they wanted 15k.

    I list prices (on website and sales ads), and they change with age/training, etc. I've also just recently seen a broodmare that was sold by a big name farm with a free breeding (price was posted) and is now back on the market in foal to one of their stallions for 3x what the person purchased them for. No doubting they purchased the mare for a song with the sole intent of getting her in foal and flipping her for "big bucks."
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    • #22
      I prefer to see at least a price range listed. I hate not knowing if I'm even in the ball park before we start talking so most of the time I will avoid those type of ads.

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      • #23
        I usually do not call on "private treaty" ads for all of the above mentioned reasons...BUT: three years ago I did, on a large pony I thought looked perfect for my program. I figured it would stop me from thinking more about him if nothing else. It turned out that this seller was just looking for the perfect home for this pony (more than trying to meet a cirtain price) and after interviewing me sold him to me for $2,500. This pony has become my keystone school pony. He gives 4 year olds linge lessons, packs up-downers and I showed him myself in open dressage shown last year with scores up to 68 in first level. Plus he jumps. So..
        Now I would inquire on private treaty or no price ads. You never know!

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        • #24
          I usually do not call on "private treaty" ads for all of the above mentioned reasons...BUT: three years ago I did, on a large pony I thought looked perfect for my program. I figured it would stop me from thinking more about him if nothing else. It turned out that this seller was just looking for the perfect home for this pony (more than trying to meet a cirtain price) and after interviewing me sold him to me for $2,500. This pony has become my keystone school pony. He gives 4 year olds lungelessons, packs up-downers and I showed him myself in open dressage shows last year with scores up to 68 in first level. Plus he jumps. So..
          Now I would inquire on private treaty or no price ads. You never know!

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          • #25
            Here's the sad truth. I've sold more young hunter prospects for really good money through trainer connections than through internet/website ads. More than one trainer has told me they'd prefer that a given horse's price not be available on the internet and some trainers have declined to represent horses that were publicly advertised with prices. So if my main sales channel is bringing me legitimate buyers and I'm getting the prices I want/need on the horses I'm producing, then I'm going to acquiesce to the demands of that sales channel. And if that means not posting sales prices then I won't post sales prices.
            "I always remember you as quite the desk chair contrarian." APirateLooksAtForty

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Bent Hickory View Post
              Here's the sad truth. I've sold more young hunter prospects for really good money through trainer connections than through internet/website ads. More than one trainer has told me they'd prefer that a given horse's price not be available on the internet and some trainers have declined to represent horses that were publicly advertised with prices. So if my main sales channel is bringing me legitimate buyers and I'm getting the prices I want/need on the horses I'm producing, then I'm going to acquiesce to the demands of that sales channel. And if that means not posting sales prices then I won't post sales prices.
              Makes complete sense. You have to know your market.

              I think it could make sense to treat it differently depending on the age group--foals vs. 3 year olds. I can't see a lot of trainers buying foals?
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              • #27
                Our jumpers breds are purchased primarily by professionals and they have been purchasing them as foals. They typically do not mind the price being posted at that stage as so much changes by the time they have developed the horse.

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                • #28
                  I personally think "private treaty" postings are because there are some buyers or lessees who would be preferred over others, and that allows the seller/lessor to "vet" through who they want their horse to go to.
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                  • #29
                    i dont like the "price range" numbers or listing a horse as price category A.. just list the price! i also don't like the comment "price will increase with training" ...

                    as for a horse selling for more than the previous seller sold it for - that is what one would *hope* would happen given training etc.

                    any buyer who was upset that the horse they bought for X was sold for Y a year back needs to take a look at their priorities - would they of bought said (horse when it was less schooled, less accomplished? no? then.......

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                    • #30
                      I am currently looking for a young prospect and find it very useful to have the price listed. I do not want to waste my time or sellers time if the horse is completely out of my price range.

                      Maybe I am overly negative, but I am suspicious that the reason that some trainers do not like to have the price posted has more to do with dishonest commission practices than with reselling for higher amounts after training.

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by mbm View Post
                        ... i also don't like the comment "price will increase with training" ....
                        I've not run into anyone who objected to this phrase in an ad before. Why do you feel this way?
                        "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by mbm View Post
                          any buyer who was upset that the horse they bought for X was sold for Y a year back needs to take a look at their priorities - would they of bought said (horse when it was less schooled, less accomplished? no? then.......
                          Buyers get upset when the horse they bought for X was "bought" from the breeder for Y three days ago...

                          Do I like the system? Not particularly. Trainers need to make money too and apparently the straight commission-based approach isn't lucrative enough. So trainers become "market makers" - they match buyers with sellers by buying at "wholesale" and selling at "retail" pocketing the difference. You don't have to be around long as a seller in this business to recognize that if the trainer isn't making money (or enough money) on a deal, the deal won't get done no matter how well-matched the horse is with the buyer.

                          My horse in my barn is worth X and the reality might be that the horse is worth 2X or more the next day in BNT's barn because I don't have access to (or some might say "control over") the same buyers that the BNT has. I don't care as long as I'm satisfied with the "wholesale" price. I have several deals with trainers where I tell them "This is my take away price, you can keep (and I don't need or care to know) what you get above that."

                          With that said, on these deals, I don't negotiate much with the trainers (because I've learned over time what the retail price is) and my horses don't go out on "trial." Too many times the trainer doesn't really have a particular buyer and is just trying to drum one up for a quick flip without laying out any cash or taking any risk. Pickers and flippers with cash are always welcome, but I won't be your bank or your insurance company.
                          Last edited by Bent Hickory; Jan. 25, 2013, 03:35 PM. Reason: clarity
                          "I always remember you as quite the desk chair contrarian." APirateLooksAtForty

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                          • #33
                            In regards to the price increasing ...

                            We price the young horses when we make the media which we do with the foals, yearlings, and 2 year olds once a year when they are slick in the spring/summer. Often I get buyers who want additional or "new" footage, but honestly they don't change that much. If they don't see what they are looking for in the footage I have available then they certainly won't see it in additional footage especially with winter fuzz on. I have found that when I do provide the new or additional footage then I never hear from the buyer again unless I get that "wow" footage. If I do bring one up to make new footage/photos, I warn the buyer that the price may change. If the young horse is developing more promise the sales price will be modified accordingly. If the buyer wants the listed price, then they need to come view and/or buy from the current media.

                            Once they are under saddle, they change quickly so I will update media (and sometimes sales price) accordingly.

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                            • #34
                              Today, with all the virtually instant forms of communication available, I don't see how one quick email/facebook message/etc is really taking up anyones valuable time any more. Especially when it takes only a few minutes to write an email and the same on the other end to read and respond to it...

                              Now personally, I find it does not matter if you deal in price ranges or exact figures - everyone seems to want the best deal. I've advertised in price ranges only to have buyers expect the lowest end of that range and want to negotiate to the next lowest one and I've dealt in distinct prices where some want to negotiate and others just walk away...
                              Alison/Mikali Farms
                              www.mikalifarms.com

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by showjumpers66 View Post
                                Often I get buyers who want additional or "new" footage, but honestly they don't change that much. If they don't see what they are looking for in the footage I have available then they certainly won't see it in additional footage especially with winter fuzz on. I have found that when I do provide the new or additional footage then I never hear from the buyer again
                                So true...
                                "I always remember you as quite the desk chair contrarian." APirateLooksAtForty

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                                • #36
                                  I found this thread really interesting! I don't list prices on my web site because I feel it should be just between the buyer and seller. What you pay for a horse is private and I wouldn't want someone to be able to go look it up. Also agree with Barbara (showjumper66) regarding professionals who might buy a young one as an investment horse. They want to be able to mark it up as they see fit. I have to say too that I have be forced to list a price on some of the ads on sale sites (which I hate) and have had it come back to haunt me. If I forget to update an ad people get mad at me because the price I listed for a yearling is not the same now that the horse is three!
                                  I frankly think it is silly not to just send a quick email asking about a price. I get them all the time. I actually prefer if people call me because if I get a good feeling about someone after talking to them I am much more likely to come down on my price if asked. In this "Internet" world we now live in, personal interaction still works best for me.
                                  Maggie
                                  www.MarabetFarm.com
                                  Standing Balt'Amour, Bliss MF & Carry On MF

                                  Sales, Stallion & Young Horse training, lessons
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                                  • #37
                                    i agree seeing 'private treaty' or no listed price can be discouraging as someone who doesn't have an endless well of money. however, if i spotted a horse who looked like it could be in my price range (ie: not one pictured showing in a grand prix with a BNR aboard) and i was really interested, i'd at least shoot along an email and inquire. even if that one particular horse was out of my range, maybe the seller or breeder would have others i would be able to afford who hadn't been listed yet.

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by ahf View Post
                                      I've not run into anyone who objected to this phrase in an ad before. Why do you feel this way?
                                      because it is obvious that as a horse progresses it's price will change accordingly. Saying it in an ad sounds desperate to me.

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                                      • #39
                                        I for one do not list prices as I feel I do not want others to know what I do with my horses or don't.
                                        Than since two years I am lying under the german law of VAT for my horse sales (undfortunately only VAT but I can not deduct my income tax :-(( ). So depending on what status the buyer has or where he comes from, even what profession makes a differences to the price. In germany we always list the endprice for any product, so it is rather difficult for me where I also sell abroad.
                                        I have always priced them reasonably in my eyes (also by feedback from buyers). I am not sure how it really distracts people from inquiring but I can see now that there are groups of buyers who don not like to see a price on the internet and others who specifically want one.
                                        This thread gives me some food for thought regarding a kind of wording to tell my horses are not overpriced and still not list a price.
                                        I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
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                                        • #40
                                          This thread is interesting. For my part the only times I inquired or bought horses without price advertized was when I had this love at first sight for a horse or his bloodline and I would have sold all I had and my children () to be able to buy this specific horse. Sometime I had nice surprise... (yes I still have my children)


                                          Otherwise I felt that if they don't show their price it's because it would change depending on who is inquiring and I don't appreciate this so don't bother to ask. But this are for horses that have comparable. The exceptionel won't stop me but they are quite rare.


                                          My horses for sale? What you see is what you pay, I always show the price and don't bargain.

                                          I hate to think that because someone is more 'agressive in dealing' he would get a better price than the one who won't bargain.

                                          Reading all the comments, I see how I might lose some trainer's clients for my mature horses but I sell mostly foals anyway so trainers are not in the picture.

                                          I understand that you can't have everything so you have to gear your marketing toward what your market is.
                                          Suzanne
                                          bloomingtonfarm.com
                                          Breeder of Royal Dutch Sport Horse

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