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Danish Warmblood mare, won her AHS MPT...questions/who would you breed to?

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  • Danish Warmblood mare, won her AHS MPT...questions/who would you breed to?

    This is a bit of a hypothetical at this point...but going to toss it out there anyway.

    A client of mine has a really lovely mare, born in Denmark (branded Danish). I'm rolling around in my head the idea of a breeding lease in a year or two with her when it would be financially prudent (well as much as it can be when it comes to horses ), as I feel she is exceptional. I have access to great vets & a great repro center not too far from me.

    She was approved with AHS with a score of 7.66 (high score of that inspection), and won her MPT the following year with a score of 7.88. I have a lot of experience with several of her sire's other offspring, all of whom have been lovely movers and have surprisingly excellent jumping technique as well. She is Windfall CB x Victory x Allegro. I am less familiar with the Danish, bottom side of her pedigree, though I note she is linebred to Absatz & Woermann. She looks very much like a particularly feminine W-line horse.

    Her dam has been bred to Blue Hors Don Romantic, Baccarat xx, and Electric (from what I could find).

    It seems that the Danish warmblood doesn't have much of a presence here in the US as far as inspections and such...is that correct? She's approved hanoverian, though I don't have her specific scores broken down - any AHS members able to access that info?

    Who would you breed this mare to? It seems wise to stick with approved Han stallions, as I wouldn't want to have to get her approved elsewhere (and there's an AHS inspection fairly close). She is an incredible mover with tremendous suspension and sit. Super slinky walk and good canter too. I would breed her for dressage, although she is a great jumper (showed some at level 1/2, ch/ad lows and scored a 9 at her inspection) and has even evented a bit with 'her' kid. If I had to fault her I would want to shorten up her back and ensure the stallion had a good loin connection/hindquarter overall (more of a square build than rectangular as she is). She is very, very intelligent and a bit of a one person horse (I wouldn't say she would be the best choice for a novice unless said novice was 'her' person, but she isn't bad minded by any stretch). I just wouldn't want to breed her to something known for being difficult. She has very little blood (horsetelex says only about 24%), so I certainly wouldn't want to go with something super tanky with lots of bone or that wasn't fairly hot off the leg. Here is a short video of her and a conformation shot (though it is old):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMh_68xQumY

    http://i49.tinypic.com/11h47sh.jpg

    F-line stallions, particularly For Compliment, (if I could ever get his frozen!) and Foundation have been suggested to me. Benidetto seems interesting as well. Like I said this is fairly distant in the future and I'm not sure it would even jive with the client's plan for her, but every time I look at her I think "That is a really exceptional mare!". Curious to hear what the breeders here think.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Dazednconfused View Post
    F-line stallions, particularly For Compliment, (if I could ever get his frozen!) and Foundation have been suggested to me. Benidetto seems interesting as well. Like I said this is fairly distant in the future and I'm not sure it would even jive with the client's plan for her, but every time I look at her I think "That is a really exceptional mare!". Curious to hear what the breeders here think.
    Judy Yancey is bringing in a limited supply of For Compliment. I think there was/is a lot of interest in it, so she may be out already. She also has frozen from Foundation, as well as from Foundation's sire, Fidertanz. Another F-line stallion to consider is Furstenball - JY has that one, too.

    The other suggestion is to see what boys in the AHS stallion service auction might interest you.

    Comment


    • #3
      I would not use either Foundation or For Compliment for your mare (she's gorgeous!), though I admire them both. Benidetto could be good.
      I have seen Foundation in person, and he is humongous - very big-bodied, lots of bone. I think too much for your mare, who might do better with a more modern, leggy type.
      For Compliment is not so heavy, but perhaps a more leggy stallion might bring more to the table.
      I think there are many good crosses in NA now, and Sir Gregory is one who comes to mind. Frozen, perhaps Sir Donnerhall I or II (though there is less data about Sir D II and what he pases on), or Romanov. Youngsters - look at De L'or, to get a nice red-with chrome, good mover, and Dreamscape is now offering both Rock Forever and Franziskus who might do very nicely. Among Celle stallion, Spoerken might be nice, Heinrich Heine, Don Index, Cassillius, Dr Watson ... many more. (See http://www.canadianhanoverians.com/b...al-state-stud/ for good pricing on Celle)
      Just my 2 cents, but I'd choose a leggier type, with a little refinement. Your mare certainly brings good movement.
      Have fun breeding her. I am jealous.
      Sunny Days Hanoverians
      http://www.sunnydayshanoverians.com

      Comment


      • #4
        I second Sunnydays' suggestion of breeding this mare to a more modern, leggier stallion since she is a little on the "old-fashioned" side and could use longer legs and some refinement.

        I have a couple of broodmares that are somewhat old-fashioned and they have produced super foals with stallions like Jazz and Florencio.

        Good luck and let us know what you decide.
        Siegi Belz
        www.stalleuropa.com
        2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
        Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

        Comment


        • #5
          Lovely mare! I agree.... stick with stallions that produce leggy and modern. SHe will probably produce beautiful foals!
          Westbrook Farm
          Facebook

          Comment


          • #6
            WOW nice mare.. she is drool worthy!!

            Are Bon Balou and Qredit heavier?
            Draumr Hesta Farm
            "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
            Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

            Comment


            • #7
              Sunnydays and Siegi made the points I thought about mentioning - i.e., Foundation and For Compliment may not be the best options for the mare, and she may do better with a leggier, more modern type (like the Sir Donnerhall brothers, Romanov, etc.). I do think if the OP is set on a stallion from the "F" sire line, Furstenball might be an interesting choice. Somewhere, I saw some photos of a Furstenball / His Highness 2 y/o (dam was a bit like the OP's in type), and that looked like a really lovely youngster.

              As for Bon Balou and Qredit - I don't think either one has a lot of offspring on the ground, but they both have some quite big-bodied and heavy horses close up in their pedigrees. For that reason, I am not sure they would work to "modernize" this mare.

              I like the Benidetto and Sir Gregory suggestions (Sir G is now approved by AHS! ) Another option may be Royal Prince, but he tends to not add fancy movement (although does have a "10"walk!).

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                The mare isn't mine and I'm not even her "one person", but she deigns to let me keep her in the manner to which she is accustomed

                Originally posted by DownYonder View Post
                Judy Yancey is bringing in a limited supply of For Compliment. I think there was/is a lot of interest in it, so she may be out already. She also has frozen from Foundation, as well as from Foundation's sire, Fidertanz. Another F-line stallion to consider is Furstenball - JY has that one, too.

                The other suggestion is to see what boys in the AHS stallion service auction might interest you.
                Thanks for the suggestions! I saw that JY had For Compliment but the order closed a week ago (and regardless I can't really do anything for another year or so anyway, realistically). Hopefully they will continue to collect him.

                Originally posted by Sunnydays View Post
                I would not use either Foundation or For Compliment for your mare (she's gorgeous!), though I admire them both. Benidetto could be good.
                I have seen Foundation in person, and he is humongous - very big-bodied, lots of bone. I think too much for your mare, who might do better with a more modern, leggy type.
                For Compliment is not so heavy, but perhaps a more leggy stallion might bring more to the table.
                I think there are many good crosses in NA now, and Sir Gregory is one who comes to mind. Frozen, perhaps Sir Donnerhall I or II (though there is less data about Sir D II and what he pases on), or Romanov. Youngsters - look at De L'or, to get a nice red-with chrome, good mover, and Dreamscape is now offering both Rock Forever and Franziskus who might do very nicely. Among Celle stallion, Spoerken might be nice, Heinrich Heine, Don Index, Cassillius, Dr Watson ... many more. (See http://www.canadianhanoverians.com/b...al-state-stud/ for good pricing on Celle)
                Just my 2 cents, but I'd choose a leggier type, with a little refinement. Your mare certainly brings good movement.
                Have fun breeding her. I am jealous.
                Great suggestions here as well - I was just looking over your site the other day and noting the high quality of your foals. Heinrich Heine really jumped out at me, as did Sir Donnerhall. I love the look of a lot of the Sandro Hit sons, but I worry about the loin connection/walk with some. I really like Romanov - especially since he's proven himself up the levels already. It would add another cross to Absatz, plus he's approved Han.

                Sir Gregory is lovely, but doesn't look to be hanoverian approved? De L'or may not be quite proven enough for me (and the amount of white could get a little exciting ) I really dig the F-line stallions, but understand they may not be the best choice for this particular mare (though if you'd like to PM me with any particular detail as to why that may be, I'd be interested in hearing ) Cassillias is also interesting - like I said, this mare is a lovely jumper too, so it would be great to keep that.

                Originally posted by siegi b. View Post
                I second Sunnydays' suggestion of breeding this mare to a more modern, leggier stallion since she is a little on the "old-fashioned" side and could use longer legs and some refinement.

                I have a couple of broodmares that are somewhat old-fashioned and they have produced super foals with stallions like Jazz and Florencio.

                Good luck and let us know what you decide.
                Interesting - how were the minds on the Jazz foals? Were they more like their mothers or him? I like a sensitive horse, although this foal would not be for me to ride personally anyway.

                (On a totally different note, I have a Veneziano in the barn I manage now. He is delightful )

                Originally posted by Mistysmom View Post
                Lovely mare! I agree.... stick with stallions that produce leggy and modern. SHe will probably produce beautiful foals!
                Originally posted by Nootka View Post
                WOW nice mare.. she is drool worthy!!

                Are Bon Balou and Qredit heavier?
                Thanks to you both! I don't think the hindleg on the Quaterbacks would suit this particular mare, and Bon Balou has a bit too much white for this cross for me. I think going straight dressage here may be the best course of action. I would also prefer to have something a little more proven, but that's not a hard and fast rule...

                Lots of interesting suggestions here and good food for thought. And glad to see others think as highly of her as I do. I have a pretty critical eye so nice to see others appreciate her as well. I would like to mention that she doesn't ride like a horse who is not very blooded/old fashioned. Maybe the mare thing She is pretty sensitive considering. Still wondering though if any AHS members can dig up her scores for me though

                Comment


                • #9
                  AHS put mare scores on the website. You will need to know what years she was inspected and did the MPT but from there it is pretty easy to look up by bloodlines.

                  I agree with those who recommend more refinement that you would likely get from For Compliment or Foundation. I like the idea of Benidetto, Bellissimo, Fuerstenball or Royal Prince. Just thinking off the top of my head. I am sure there are other very good possibilities.
                  Mary Lou
                  http://www.homeagainfarm.com

                  https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

                  Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dazednconfused View Post
                    Sir Gregory is lovely, but doesn't look to be hanoverian approved?
                    He was just approved over the past weekend by the Verband and AHS while they were at the Annual Meeting in San Diego. So if you like Sir Gregory (who I think is fabulous) just wait, he will be fully activated soon!
                    Kris
                    www.edgewoodmeadowfarm.com
                    Like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/edgewoodmeadowfarm

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I saw on FB the other day that Sir Gregory is now approved Hanoverian.

                      Another F-line stallion I really like is Farewell III, but he may be too heavy as well.
                      Caitlin
                      *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
                      http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Home Again Farm View Post
                        AHS put mare scores on the website. You will need to know what years she was inspected and did the MPT but from there it is pretty easy to look up by bloodlines.

                        I agree with those who recommend more refinement that you would likely get from For Compliment or Foundation. I like the idea of Benidetto, Bellissimo, Fuerstenball or Royal Prince. Just thinking off the top of my head. I am sure there are other very good possibilities.
                        Unless I'm looking in the wrong place, it requires you to be a member of AHS to look that up.

                        I'll definitely give Fuerstenball & Bellissimo a closer look. Thanks for the suggestions

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Tailormade Temptation
                          Cindy Bergmann
                          Canterbury Court
                          559-903-4814
                          www.canterbury-court.com

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Canterbury Court View Post
                            Tailormade Temptation
                            Lovely boy, but not hanoverian approved.

                            Wonder if the Danish studbook is erkend for KWPN? Hmm...that would open up a few options with some Dutch stallions...


                            Dug up a few other photos I have of her, perhaps will help narrow it down...

                            http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...90934220_n.jpg

                            http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...04082352_n.jpg

                            http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...95386850_n.jpg

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I agree with Sunnydays, I love Sir Gregory. I would avoid Farewell III, we have a huge gelding by him out of a mare that is not. He's a lovely stallion, but not for your mare who is stunning. I too agree that a leggy stallion would be a good choice. I like Dante Weltino who is now approved Hanoverian, but he's young and doesn't have any offspring under saddle, same for For Romance. I have foals coming this year from both. I doubt that this mare could have a bad foal, love her!!
                              www.brightfuturesporthorse.com
                              www.globalequinesires.com

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Top Kat View Post
                                I agree with Sunnydays, I love Sir Gregory. I would avoid Farewell III, we have a huge gelding by him out of a mare that is not. He's a lovely stallion, but not for your mare who is stunning. I too agree that a leggy stallion would be a good choice. I like Dante Weltino who is now approved Hanoverian, but he's young and doesn't have any offspring under saddle, same for For Romance. I have foals coming this year from both. I doubt that this mare could have a bad foal, love her!!
                                Dante Weltino would add two more crosses to Weltmeyer. Wonder how that would go. Coming from the arab world originally, linebreeding doesn't bother me much at all, but perhaps the buyers/other breeders would be...

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I too began breeding Arabians and I'm a fan of line breeding. There have been discussions which I found amusing advising against it. I decided that I didn't want to jump in, to each his own. I will continue to do it, I have a Florencio in foal to For Romance, can't wait to see the foal. I also have a Florencio(full sister) to Temptation, he's a bit hot to say the least and the Florencio's can be 'sensitive'. Who would have thought that breeding a Sandro HIt to Temptation would get Tomahawk, a totally cool character or at least that's what I got gleaned from comments about him.

                                  Dante Weltino got a lot of mares last year in Germany, looking forward to seeing what he puts on them, I do like him and he might work for your mare.
                                  www.brightfuturesporthorse.com
                                  www.globalequinesires.com

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Have you looked at Cobra One?
                                    Willamoes is also approved Danish, though maybe too big/older type..

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by tucktaway View Post
                                      Have you looked at Cobra One?
                                      Willamoes is also approved Danish, though maybe too big/older type..
                                      If I were breeding her to make a jumper, I think I'd rather go with a more proven sire (re: Cobra One) - probably a very blooded holsteiner stallion with a great stamm. He's a good looking horse but not quite right for what I'd be looking for. The other trouble too is that I don't think there are any Danish inspections near me, if any at all in the US. So I'd rather stick with Hanoverian (or maybe KWPN if danish is an erkend studbook?) Willemoes is definitely too heavy.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        The Danes come every other year for inspections, and have them at several sites throughout the U.S.
                                        They just had inspections in 2012, so they'll be back in 2014.

                                        The NADWA website is being redone, but you could always contact Oak Hill Ranch about Danish Warmblood stallions and inspections in the U.S. info@oakhillranch.com

                                        Comment

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