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Policies & Practices of Planned Eventing Studbook

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  • Policies & Practices of Planned Eventing Studbook

    Policies and Practices


    Breeding Goal
    The breeding goal is to produce the modern international eventer, a highly athletic performance horse that:

    (a) has athletic expression reflecting its primary Thoroughbred and Anglo-Arab and Shagya Arab genetics and its secondary warmblood genetics, which facilitate excellence in all three phases of eventing with the quick reflexes required to ensure "fifth leg" safety for both horse and rider;

    (b) competes successfully in international eventing at the highest levels (Olympics, World Championships, FEI Regional Championships, CCI****, etc.);

    (c) has a character that exudes a willingness to work and learn as well as being good-natured toward people;

    (d) has a constitution that is strong and healthy and enables and facilitates a long competition career;

    (e) has functional conformation and correct movement dynamics that enable and facilitate a long competition career;

    (f) has a correct foundation with hard hooves in proportion to the size and weight of the horse;

    (g) has an attractive exterior that is refined, noble, and pleasing to the eye.


    Description of the Model Horse
    The horse is, above all else, an athlete. He is a long-lined and rectangular horse with clean bones and very dry texture. He has the conformation of a modern, high-blooded eventing horse and is correct, noble, and has harmonious proportions. He moves correctly, is balanced, and is supple and elastic with self-carriage and much impulsion. He is easy to handle, easy to ride, and intelligent with a willing and hardworking character. The horse is obedient under saddle and willing to accept the rider's aides; has courage, stamina, a ground-covering canter and gallop; jumps with quick reflexes; is careful but courageous; has excellent technique with both front legs and hind legs; and has a great deal of scope.



    Character Standards
    The horse is an athlete that should:

    (a) exhibit an obedient, willing, hardworking, calm, and honest character;

    (b) be intelligent and learn quickly;

    (c) have the desire to work and perform;

    (d) be easy to handle;

    (e) react quickly to the aids;

    (f) have courage;

    (g) over time develop trust in the rider and handlers.


    Conformation Standards
    The horse is an athlete that should:

    (a) have a horizontal build;

    (b) stand in a rectangular frame;

    (c) have a moderately long neck that is arched with muscling in the topline;

    (d) have a strongly built and strongly muscled back/loin formation;

    (e) have a correct and hard foundation with hooves in proportion to the size and weight of the horse;

    (f) have legs with clean bones that are strong but not excessive in size and soft tissue with very dry texture;

    (g) be attractive, modern, noble, in proportion, and pleasing to the eye;

    (h) have quality, substance, and soundness;

    (i) be a type that reflects its high-blooded pedigree.


    Movement Standards
    The horse should possess the following athletic dynamics in movement (both in the dressage and on the showjumping and cross-country courses):

    (a) the walk is a pure ‘four beat’ gait that is active and has suppleness, impulsion, and a large over-track;

    (b) the trot is a pure ‘two beat’ gait that is active and has suppleness, elasticity, impulsion, balance, and self-carriage;

    (c) the canter is a pure ‘three beat’ gait that is active, powerful, and has suppleness, elasticity, impulsion, balance, self-carriage, and a moment of suspension;

    (d) the gallop is a pure "four beat" gait that is active, powerful, ground-covering, and responsive and has suppleness, impulsion, balance, and self-carriage, and is able to be easily controlled by the rider with respect to speed and direction while possessing great stamina;

    (e) can lengthen and shorten strides easily in all gaits without losing rhythm, balance, impulsion, or self-carriage;

    (f) rises in the front and willingly accepts weight on his hind legs;

    (g) has good posture;

    (h) is light footed and athletic;

    (i) shows flexion in the joints, engagement of the hindquarters, and freedom of the shoulder.


    Showjumping Standards
    The horse should possess the following athletic dynamics in showjumping:

    (a) be able to collect strongly during the last canter stride before the jump and be able to place the hindlegs together and far forward under the body to create a powerful takeoff;

    (b) leave the ground quickly with power;

    (c) jump with an upward wither with the apex of the jump over the middle of the fence;

    (d) bring the underarm above the horizontal and fold the cannon under the underarm;

    (e) create a bascule, meaning the head and neck should stretch out and down to insure a well-balanced jump, the rump should follow the direction of the neck, and he should finish the jump by flexing his back and opening the hindquarters;

    (f) exhibit athletic ability, meaning he is supple and elastic; can develop forward motion over the jump; lands lightly; canters off easily; and is careful, efficient, and has much scope;

    (g) jump so his body and legs remain straight and he remains in the middle of the jump;

    (h) clear each jump confidently, easily, and in good style;

    (i) have a calm and steady rhythm.


    Cross-Country Jumping and Gallop Standards
    The horse should possess the following athletic dynamics while jumping on the cross-country course:

    (a) be courageous but careful when jumping obstacles;

    (b) be able to collect before a jump while galloping;

    (c) be willing to jump into and over, and canter through, water of any depth proposed by the course-builder;

    (d) be willing to accept to the aids of the rider with respect to speed and direction while approaching a jump and after landing;

    (e) be able to maintain a gallop speed of 800 metres per minute on the track during the length of a typical cross-country course; and

    (f) have great stamina that allows for the quality of the gallop and the jump to be maintained even at the end of a long cross-country course.


    General Policies to Achieve Breeding Goal & Standards
    The Studbook's breeding goal, model horse standards, conformation standards, movement standards, jumping standards, cross-country standards, and character standards will be achieved by the following general policies:

    (a) the foundation of the Studbook is Thoroughbred and Anglo-Arab and Shagya Arab damlines: every foal registered in the Pure Blood Foal Book and Warmblood Foal Book, except as noted in (b) below, every Approved Stallion, and every Main Book Mare must descend from a Thoroughbred or Anglo-Arab or Shagya Arab damline;

    (b) foals that do not descend from a Thoroughbred or Anglo-Arab or Shagya Arab damline, but descend from a damline that has produced international eventing horses that competed in 3* or 4* CCI or CIC events, are eligible to be registered in the Warmblood Foal Book upon approval by the Breeding Director;

    (c) by 2015 the annual population of newly registered foals must maintain an average of at least 85 Percent Pure Blood in the nine-generation pedigree;

    (d) rigorous selection, evaluation, monitoring, and culling with respect to stallions;

    (e) concentrating outstanding sirelines in the Studbook's population of Approved Stallions;

    (f) concentrating outstanding damlines in the Studbook's population of Approved Stallions;

    (g) selectively incorporating new outstanding sires into the population and carefully monitoring the impact of these new genetics on the population;

    (h) restricting entry into the Main Book to those stallions that have passed rigorous inspections;

    (i) requiring Approved Stallions to meet or surpass veterinary and radiological standards established by the Studbook;

    (j) requiring Approved Stallions to pass annual evaluations of their progeny to maintain their approval.


    Divisions of the Studbook and Entry Criteria
    The Studbook is composed of three books:

    (a) Pure Blood Foal Book, which contains foals possessing exclusively Pure Blood (i.e., Thoroughbred, Ango-Arab, and/or Shagya Arab) genes and whose sire and dam meet the Studbook's eligibility criteria;

    (b) Warmblood Foal Book, which contains foals possessing a combination of Pure Blood genes and warmblood genes and whose sire and dam meet the Studbook’s eligibility criteria; and

    (c) Main Book, which contains stallions born into the Pure Blood Foal Book or Warmblood Foal Book and subsequently entered into the Main Book as Approved Stallions, and mares born into the Pure Blood Foal Book or Warmblood Foal Book and subsequently entered into the Main Book.

    System for Recording Pedigrees
    The following system is used to record pedigrees in the Studbook:

    (a) A licensed computerized Studbook Administration Database is employed. Every foal, Approved Stallion, and Main Book Mare has its own unique file in the database from which a pedigree can be easily created using the data that have been inputted into the program. The database is backed-up regularly to ensure the integrity and survivability of the data.

    (b) To verify parentage DNA analysis is performed on hair taken from every foal registered by the Studbook. The DNA sample must be taken by a veterinary surgeon before weaning and at the time of registration. At the same time as the DNA sample is taken the veterinary surgeon completes the marking chart, notes the natural marks, implants a microchip, and records the microchip number on the marking chart.

    (c) If the sire and/or dam of the foal were not born into the Studbook a clear photocopy of the Identification Documents of the foal's sire and dam must be provided by the mare owner/custodian at the time the foal is registered. If the Studbook has questions about the authenticity of the document or the accuracy of the pedigree recorded in the document the Studbook will contact the issuing authority to verify the pedigree.

    (d) The DNA Laboratory Profile Number of the foal, the sire, and the dam (and further descendants as the Studbook's population grows) will be contained in the foal's entry in the Studbook Administration Database along with other data related to identity, pedigree, performance, etc.


    Policies for Identifying Horses to be Registered by the Studbook
    The following system is used to identify horses registered and issued Identification Documents by the Studbook:

    (a) An Identification Document, based on data contained in the computerized Studbook Administration Database and supporting documents, shall be issued in respect of all foals entered in the Studbook.

    (b) The Identification Document shall contain the name of the foal; Unique Equine Life Number (UELN); date of birth; sex; color; breeder's name and address; owner's name and address; photocopy of the marking chart noting natural and acquired markings; microchip number; DNA profile number; and four-generation pedigree.

    (c) The Ownership Document shall contain the name of the foal; Unique Equine Life Number (UELN); date of birth; sex; color; breeder's name and address; owner's name and address; photocopy of the marking chart noting natural and acquired markings; microchip number; DNA profile number; and four-generation pedigree.

    (d) All foals shall be named using the naming conventions described in the Rules and Procedures.


    System of Identifying and Registering Foals
    Foals are identified and registered by the following procedure:

    (a) The Studbook sends digital Certificates of Service to owners/custodians/agents of activated Approved Stallions.

    (b) The stallion owner/custodian/agent electronically submits a digital Certificate of Service to the Studbook, accompanied by the prescribed fee, for each mare that has been determined to be in foal.

    (c) The Studbook sends a digital Certificate of Birth to the mare owner/custodian.

    (d) The mare owner/custodian notifies the Studbook of his intention to register a foal by electronically returning the completed digital Certificate of Birth, accompanied by the prescribed fee.

    (e) The Studbook verifies that the foal is eligible for registration.

    (f) The foal's parentage is confirmed through DNA analysis.

    (g) The foal is assigned a 15-digit UELN.

    (h) The foal is named at the time of registration.

    (i) If the breeder of the foal has a registered prefix or suffix this prefix or suffix will be incorporated into the foal's name.

    (j) The Studbook issues the passport to the owner/custodian when it is satisfied that all requirements have been satisfied and all registration details are correct. The original marking chart is retained and stored by the Studbook and a photocopy of the marking chart is included in the Identification Document.

    (k) The Studbook issues an Ownership Document to the foal owner/custodian.


    System for Tracking Performance Data
    The following data sources are used to track the performance of horses registered and issued Identification Documents by the Studbook:

    (a) International Equestrian Federation (FEI) results and points for certain international eventing competitions;

    (b) FEI rankings of international eventing horses;

    (c) Equine Canada, Eventing Ireland, British Eventing, United States Eventing Association, and other national eventing associations and national equestrian federations for national eventing results.


    Entry of Lineages from Other Studbooks
    Stallions and mares whose lineage is new to the Studbook will have details of their lineage imported into the Studbook Administration Database.


    Non-Discriminatory Treatment of Breeders
    The Studbook does not discriminate against horses born into the Studbook or their breeders or owners. A foal or older horse bred by any individual is entitled to be entered into the appropriate book if the animal, its sire, its dam, and the breeder fulfill all prescribed conditions for registration. Any stallion that fulfills all prescribed conditions and requirements will be evaluated for
    approval by the Studbook. Any mare that fulfills all prescribed conditions and requirements will entered into the Main Book of the Studbook.


    Appeals of Decisions by the Studbook
    A Member in Good Standing may appeal certain Studbook decisions by following the procedures detailed in Section 7 of the Rules and Procedures.
    Morningside Stud
    http://www.morningside-stud.com
    http://twitter.com/MorningsideStud
    http://www.facebook.com/MorningsideStud

  • #2
    Interesting. Any ideas on what the costs will be? I'll have to re-read and understand the qualifications. 3 out of my 4 mares would qualify (two full TBs and one out of a TB (and a half sister of a 4* event horse)). Not sure about my German girl although I think she is capable of producing a top event horse if I cross her with a TB or substantial TB sire...based on me knowing her. Her pedigree is here(http://www.horsetelex.nl//horses/pedigree/659962) So if I'm reading right her offspring would not be qualified.

    Most of the standards look good. I do think blood percentage may be a bit on the high side (85%) given the direction of the sport.
    ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

    Comment


    • #3
      what is the advatntage of using this book that is not already provided by exisitng books? You basically are paying to have Tom put his "eventing book" stamp on your foals--does it add value to you?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by omare View Post
        what is the advatntage of using this book that is not already provided by exisitng books? You basically are paying to have Tom put his "eventing book" stamp on your foals--does it add value to you?
        Possibly it would add value. None of the stud books are geared at all for the event horses. They are looking for Dressage horses and Jumpers. We use those stud books because that is all there is. If there is alternative....that may end up being more valuable for eventers and marketing our offspring to eventers.
        ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
          Interesting. Any ideas on what the costs will be? I'll have to re-read and understand the qualifications. 3 out of my 4 mares would qualify (two full TBs and one out of a TB (and a half sister of a 4* event horse)). Not sure about my German girl although I think she is capable of producing a top event horse if I cross her with a TB or substantial TB sire...based on me knowing her. Her pedigree is here(http://www.horsetelex.nl//horses/pedigree/659962) So if I'm reading right her offspring would not be qualified.

          Most of the standards look good. I do think blood percentage may be a bit on the high side (85%) given the direction of the sport.
          I took a quick look at your warmblood mare's damline and she is not eligible at this time to produce foals for the new studbook because her non-TB/AA/ShA damline has not produced 3* or 4* eventers. She has a good damline to breed dressage horses.

          The blood percentage might be a bit high but remember that percentage is calculated on the population level.

          The costs will be competitive. We will use best practice and microchip and DNA parentage test every foal.
          Morningside Stud
          http://www.morningside-stud.com
          http://twitter.com/MorningsideStud
          http://www.facebook.com/MorningsideStud

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by omare View Post
            what is the advatntage of using this book that is not already provided by exisitng books? You basically are paying to have Tom put his "eventing book" stamp on your foals--does it add value to you?
            This studbook is designed for dedicated and serious eventing breeders who want to breed within the world's first and only studbook dedicated to breeding international eventing horses. Other studbooks produce eventers, but they are produced by accident. Look at the studbook rules for the top-ranked eventing studbooks. None of them has rules, policies guidelines, etc. designed to breed eventers.

            As I have written elsewhere, our goal is to produce a population that produces CCI/CIC eventing horses as reliably as top showjumping studbooks produce CSI horses.

            A breeder would not be paying me to "stamp" his foals. A serious and dedicated eventing breeder would be breeding within a community of eventing breeders led by a team that has already produced international eventing horses. How many studbooks can say that???
            Morningside Stud
            http://www.morningside-stud.com
            http://twitter.com/MorningsideStud
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            Comment


            • #7
              I'd like to see where it goes. I'm still wary of having a book that puts "blood" ahead of performance. I understand where you are coming from, Tom in the previous response to my post, however a damline that produced three foals one CCI**, one CCI* and one GRP eventer should be considered, IMHO instead of excluding that performance record for an OTTB just because it has JC "blood" ...it is interesting to me.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tom View Post
                I took a quick look at your warmblood mare's damline and she is not eligible at this time to produce foals for the new studbook because her non-TB/AA/ShA damline has not produced 3* or 4* eventers. She has a good damline to breed dressage horses.

                Thanks Tom. Yes, that mare was breed for dressage in Germany and competed in dressage herself although she has quite a good jump, a good gallop and is very bold. She needs more blood to produce an UL event horse and so far I've only breed her for dressage foals (as they sell better than event foals). I thought from my first read through that she would be excluded. She is currently approved in two stud books already anyway.

                I think it is an interesting concept. Depending on costs, I might consider cross registering a few at first. My mares are all approved in other stud books but the concept is appealing.
                ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by TSHEventing View Post
                  I'd like to see where it goes. I'm still wary of having a book that puts "blood" ahead of performance. I understand where you are coming from, Tom in the previous response to my post, however a damline that produced three foals one CCI**, one CCI* and one GRP eventer should be considered, IMHO instead of excluding that performance record for an OTTB just because it has JC "blood" ...it is interesting to me.
                  We are not putting "blood" ahead of performance. We want both blood AND performance. We are counting on dedicated and serious breeders to select the right mares be they TB/AA/ShA, half-bred, or warmblood. Our responsibility as studbook officials is to think on the population level; your responsibility as a breeder is to think on the individual (mare/stallion) level.

                  At this time our thinking is that if a damline does not bring blood to the party we are willing to make a concession if that damline has proven itself as a producer of 3* or 4* horses. One star and two stars is not sufficient for us.
                  Morningside Stud
                  http://www.morningside-stud.com
                  http://twitter.com/MorningsideStud
                  http://www.facebook.com/MorningsideStud

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                    Thanks Tom. Yes, that mare was breed for dressage in Germany and competed in dressage herself although she has quite a good jump, a good gallop and is very bold. She needs more blood to produce an UL event horse and so far I've only breed her for dressage foals (as they sell better than event foals). I thought from my first read through that she would be excluded. She is currently approved in two stud books already anyway.

                    I think it is an interesting concept. Depending on costs, I might consider cross registering a few at first. My mares are all approved in other stud books but the concept is appealing.
                    I would suggest that you keep on breeding dressage horses from that mare. She herself may have a jump and a gallop but her genetics are so dominated by dressage genes that you will be rowing upstream against stong currents. Better to go with the flow, in my opinion. A quick look at her damline shows multiple GP/ CDI dressage horses and several 1.0 - 1.20 m. jumpers. Damlines seldom lie.
                    Morningside Stud
                    http://www.morningside-stud.com
                    http://twitter.com/MorningsideStud
                    http://www.facebook.com/MorningsideStud

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have a TB/Conn broodmare. Her sire is Hideaway's Erin Go Bragh, full sister is Blackpoints Tilly Go Bragh, both seriously successful eventers. Would her progeny be eligible?
                      I wasn't always a Smurf
                      Penmerryl Sophie RIDSH
                      "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                      The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tom View Post
                        I would suggest that you keep on breeding dressage horses from that mare. She herself may have a jump and a gallop but her genetics are so dominated by dressage genes that you will be rowing upstream against stong currents. Better to go with the flow, in my opinion. A quick look at her damline shows multiple GP/ CDI dressage horses and several 1.0 - 1.20 m. jumpers. Damlines seldom lie.
                        Interesting though. What level of jumper do you think you need for an UL eventer? I've just seen and known too many 4* level horses who in all honestly were not the most scopey of jumpers. This mare easily jumped 1.3m but her career was geared to dressage (as I assume most in her dam line were--although her dam sire Lemon xx produced a lot of jumpers too and several top level eventers as well).

                        Also...FWIW...the market here in the US is a bit different. For me, I would breed more toward eventing with her because that is what *I* like to do and if they do not sell young, you have to put them into work to sell them. One of the most lucrative markets in the US is in selling YR horses. Those are fancy on the flat and only compete to the 2* level. So no...this is not a mare I would anticipate producing a 4* eventer.....but then again....Remy wasn't expected to be one either but he became a very nice one (really a nice 3* boy though he did get around one or two 4*).

                        http://www.horsetelex.nl//horses/pedigree/1495554

                        But I understand your studbook being geared to just top levels. There is a part of me that wonders about this as IME, what makes a top level eventer (3*and 4*) often has as much to do with who is in the irons and has done the training as the pedigree of the horse.
                        ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I love this in theory however I don't think it would work as it is currently written.

                          I believe the rules, as they are written will not produce a consistent type of horse. I fear there will be two sets - the true upper level eventing prospects, and the people breeding every $500 OTTB based on the fact that it has a uterus and is eligible based on the fact that it meets the blood requirements.

                          The other factor is that perhaps in Europe, the event horse market is better than it is here, but I would want any horse I breed to be desirable to a larger market segment. While I may produce a horse that could be competative in a variety of disciplines, registering it as an "eventer" might limit it's appeal to other potential buyers.

                          I think ignoring the 1*/2* market is a huge mistake since they make up such a huge segment of what the average event rider is shopping for. I really hope it works out, but for now, I think I'd stick with an established registry that would have a broader appeal.
                          The rebel in the grey shirt

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by carolprudm View Post
                            I have a TB/Conn broodmare. Her sire is Hideaway's Erin Go Bragh, full sister is Blackpoints Tilly Go Bragh, both seriously successful eventers. Would her progeny be eligible?
                            Blackpoints Tilly Go Bragh was a CCI3*, correct? This would most likely be acceptable since your mare is a full-sister. So progeny of your mare would most lijelt be acceptable. Without seeing her full pedigree, I suspect the proposed ruled require that she be bred to a TB/AA/ShA or a half-bred stallion.
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                              #15
                              Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                              Interesting though. What level of jumper do you think you need for an UL eventer? I've just seen and known too many 4* level horses who in all honestly were not the most scopey of jumpers. This mare easily jumped 1.3m but her career was geared to dressage (as I assume most in her dam line were--although her dam sire Lemon xx produced a lot of jumpers too and several top level eventers as well).

                              Also...FWIW...the market here in the US is a bit different. For me, I would breed more toward eventing with her because that is what *I* like to do and if they do not sell young, you have to put them into work to sell them. One of the most lucrative markets in the US is in selling YR horses. Those are fancy on the flat and only compete to the 2* level. So no...this is not a mare I would anticipate producing a 4* eventer.....but then again....Remy wasn't expected to be one either but he became a very nice one (really a nice 3* boy though he did get around one or two 4*).

                              http://www.horsetelex.nl//horses/pedigree/1495554

                              But I understand your studbook being geared to just top levels. There is a part of me that wonders about this as IME, what makes a top level eventer (3*and 4*) often has as much to do with who is in the irons and has done the training as the pedigree of the horse.
                              Yes, the rider is important. But the horse is the necessary condition, although not the sufficient condition. Riders can always be changed but the horse cannot change its athleticism.

                              If you want to be in the YR/JR market I do not think you should be trying to breed one star horses. Your errors most likely be asymmetric, meaning when you fail to produce the 1*/2* you are more likely to produce a failure, rather than a 3* or 4*, in the case of the dressage mare because you are asking her genetic endowment to do something it is not designed to do. Of course she may do it, she may produce 3* and 4* eventers, but that is by luck and not design. This strategy may be appealing to you but it is not a strategy the new studbook will embrace.
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                                #16
                                Originally posted by JWB View Post
                                I love this in theory however I don't think it would work as it is currently written.

                                I believe the rules, as they are written will not produce a consistent type of horse. I fear there will be two sets - the true upper level eventing prospects, and the people breeding every $500 OTTB based on the fact that it has a uterus and is eligible based on the fact that it meets the blood requirements.

                                The other factor is that perhaps in Europe, the event horse market is better than it is here, but I would want any horse I breed to be desirable to a larger market segment. While I may produce a horse that could be competative in a variety of disciplines, registering it as an "eventer" might limit it's appeal to other potential buyers.

                                I think ignoring the 1*/2* market is a huge mistake since they make up such a huge segment of what the average event rider is shopping for. I really hope it works out, but for now, I think I'd stick with an established registry that would have a broader appeal.
                                Your concern is valid on the face of it but in reality we are putting our efforts toward serious and dedicated eventing breeders, not rescue mare breeders. The non-serious breeders will be punished by the market and they will cease breeding unless they are independently wealthy.

                                If a breeder want to produce 1* and 2* horses (a position I simply do not understand, but that is neither here nor there), he or she should still try to breed for the top. A failure in this strategy is either a 3*/4* horse or an athletic horse of no value. But the probably of those two events are not equal, I believe. There is regression to the mean (i.e., in the direction of the worthless).

                                You point about labeling is interesting. The sophisticated buyer does not concern himself or herself with labels, and especially studbook labels. If a horse is an eventing prospect he will reveal that to a sophisticated buyer no matter what studbook it is registered in. If the horse is a showjumping prospect, likewise. A sophisticated buyer of showjumpers, for example, is not going to walk away from a super young horse registered by the eventing studbook simply because it is registered by the eventing studbook.

                                We are not going to be all things for all people. Like the Warmblood Studbook of Ireland is, we know the new eventing studbook will be small. Small by design. We prefer to work with a small community of serious and dedicated eventing breeders who know what they are doing and try to do it to a world-class standard.
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                                • #17
                                  I think it is possible for the person with a single nice TB mare to breed for the top. What it takes is someone who is serious about what they are doing, dedicated to producing the best foal they can, and a willingness to continue to educate themselves.

                                  I hope to be that person.

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                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Fourbeats View Post
                                    I think it is possible for the person with a single nice TB mare to breed for the top. What it takes is someone who is serious about what they are doing, dedicated to producing the best foal they can, and a willingness to continue to educate themselves.

                                    I hope to be that person.
                                    And this is precisely the type of breeder we want to work with in the eventing studbook!
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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by tom View Post
                                      Your concern is valid on the face of it but in reality we are putting our efforts toward serious and dedicated eventing breeders, not rescue mare breeders. The non-serious breeders will be punished by the market and they will cease breeding unless they are independently wealthy.

                                      If a breeder want to produce 1* and 2* horses (a position I simply do not understand, but that is neither here nor there), he or she should still try to breed for the top. A failure in this strategy is either a 3*/4* horse or an athletic horse of no value. But the probably of those two events are not equal, I believe. There is regression to the mean (i.e., in the direction of the worthless).

                                      You point about labeling is interesting. The sophisticated buyer does not concern himself or herself with labels, and especially studbook labels. If a horse is an eventing prospect he will reveal that to a sophisticated buyer no matter what studbook it is registered in. If the horse is a showjumping prospect, likewise. A sophisticated buyer of showjumpers, for example, is not going to walk away from a super young horse registered by the eventing studbook simply because it is registered by the eventing studbook.

                                      We are not going to be all things for all people. Like the Warmblood Studbook of Ireland is, we know the new eventing studbook will be small. Small by design. We prefer to work with a small community of serious and dedicated eventing breeders who know what they are doing and try to do it to a world-class standard.

                                      This makes some sense to me. The Studbook should strive to produce Advanced-level horses, not Prelim or Intermediate-level horses. By the very nature of breeding, attempting to make The Very Best horses will always have a lot of "second-best" horses (your 1*/2* horses). It's sort of like upper-end TB race breeding: breed for a Stakes winner, not for a Charles Town claimer. Breeding a stakes-placed mare to the likes of Bernardini will give you a good shot at a stakes horse, but Berni will produce plenty of allowance/claiming performers, too.

                                      We are fortunate to have a huge base of TB mares here in this country; many Nice ones generally end up paired with dressage/hunter/jumper stallions instead of eventers (it's about the $$, right). And sadly, there aren't many Proven upper level mares in this country to end up back in the eventing gene pool.

                                      I'm hopeful that this Eventing Studbook will at least create some more incentive and reward breeders who do seek to produce great event horses. Even for the individual 1- or 2-mare breeder, this could give some guidance and direction. For one thing, it might give breeders a place to register an AI-conceived Thoroughbred produced for sport!
                                      “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
                                      ? Albert Einstein

                                      ~AJ~

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                                      • #20
                                        Very interested but wary of not pursuing Old/ISR registration in terms of marketability. My mare is full TB and full sister to a *** Eventer so she would qualify. Love the concept and think this is a wonderful initiative.

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