• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

World's First Eventing Studbook

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    Tom - some questions -

    1. Will this studbook operate in NA? IOW, are NA bred foals eligible for registration as long as they meet the bloodline criteria?

    2. Are there any inspection requirements for mare or foal?

    3. Is the registry going for WBFSH recognition?

    4. What is the name of the studbook? Is it a separate studbook within WSI?

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #22
      Originally posted by DownYonder View Post
      Tom - some questions -

      1. Will this studbook operate in NA? IOW, are NA bred foals eligible for registration as long as they meet the bloodline criteria?

      2. Are there any inspection requirements for mare or foal?

      3. Is the registry going for WBFSH recognition?

      4. What is the name of the studbook? Is it a separate studbook within WSI?
      1. Yes. We plan to work with serious and dedicated breeders throughout the world. (Dedicated = breeders whose goal is to produce top-level eventers, not breeders who are trying to breed showjumpers and think their horse can be called an eventing horse if it is not good enough to be a showjumper. There is a lot of that on this side of the pond.)

      2. Unlike WSI, which has strict mare inspection requirements and for which every foal must be inspected (not to determine eligibility for registration but to provide important insights to the breeder and the Stallion Inspection Committee), the eventing studbook will not have mare and foal inspections. It would be impossible to conduct inspections with breeders and the mares scattered all over the world.

      3. The WBFSH does not "recognize" or "approve" studbooks. It is a trade association dominated by a few big studbooks that protect their interests jealously. To become a Full Member of the WBFSH the studbook must have been in operation for at least five years. (A new studbook can become an Associate Member but there are no privileges other than being required to hand over a sum of money each year.) When the studbook is five years old we will join the WBFSH if it is providing services to studbooks and, by extension, breeders that are useful.

      4. We will announce the name in due course. The studbook will be completely separate from WSI; it will not be affiliated with WSI except both studbooks will be managed by the same team of experienced and successful breeders.
      Morningside Stud
      http://www.morningside-stud.com
      http://twitter.com/MorningsideStud
      http://www.facebook.com/MorningsideStud

      Comment


      • #23
        I am not a breeder, but I am looking for a young horse with upper level potential, so I have been studying pedigrees intently. I have also had people emailing me with young horses for sale.

        While many of these young horses are exciting event prospects, and I appreciate knowing about them, others are OTTB's with no known sporthorse breeding. (e.g. I look for In Reality, Buckpasser, Caro, Hoist The Flag, His Majesty, Princequillo, Never Bend, Dr. Fager etc.). Their only common trait(s) is that they were too slow or unsound or old to be a racehorse.

        Using the current criteria, any of these mares and their offspring can be included in your stud book, right?

        I have also looked at progeny of Windfall since he is producing good eventing offspring. But, since the Trakhener is not a "desirable breed", unless those foals are out of a qualifying mare, they would not be registerable, if I am correct.

        I very possibly could be wrong in any or all of my assumptions, so please correct me if I am.
        "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

        Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump

        Comment


        • #24
          I found this list, compiled by the USEA, over on the Eventing forum. I researched pedigrees for almost all of these horses, trying to find a common thread or ancestor.

          http://useventing.com/news/young-eve...e-are-they-now

          Sadly, none jumped out at me except for Winfall's offspring. However, these are generally too young to have had the opportunity to succeed at the upper levels.

          I know this list only goes back to 2004 and is only comprised of US eventing classes, so it is far from a comprehensive study of eventing bloodlines, but still, I found the lack of commonality of bloodlines to be discouraging.

          PS: It seems to me that A Fine Romance should be on your list of charter stallions. He certainly fulfills all of your requirements.
          "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

          Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #25
            Originally posted by Lord Helpus View Post
            I am not a breeder, but I am looking for a young horse with upper level potential, so I have been studying pedigrees intently. I have also had people emailing me with young horses for sale.

            While many of these young horses are exciting event prospects, and I appreciate knowing about them, others are OTTB's with no known sporthorse breeding. (e.g. I look for In Reality, Buckpasser, Caro, Hoist The Flag, His Majesty, Princequillo, Never Bend, Dr. Fager etc.). Their only common trait(s) is that they were too slow or unsound or old to be a racehorse.

            Using the current criteria, any of these mares and their offspring can be included in your stud book, right?

            I have also looked at progeny of Windfall since he is producing good eventing offspring. But, since the Trakhener is not a "desirable breed", unless those foals are out of a qualifying mare, they would not be registerable, if I am correct.

            I very possibly could be wrong in any or all of my assumptions, so please correct me if I am.
            Windfall is exactly the kind of stallion we hope breeders will consider using: a very successful international eventer at the highest levels with a top-class pedigree including a dam that evented and a sister that was also a successful eventer. And his dam is a TB.

            Windfall is a "half-bred". If he is bred to a TB/AA/ShA mare, that foal can be registered by the new studbook. If he is bred to a half-bred mare that descends from a TB/AA/ShA damline, that foal can be registered by the new studbook. If he is bred to a warmblood mare that descends from a TB/AA/ShA damline, that foal can be registered by the new studbook. If he is bred to a warmblood mare that has a documented 5-generation pedigree but does not descend from a TB/AA/ShA damline, that foal can be registered by the new studbook only if that mare, or a mare in her damline, has evented at 3* or 4* level and/or has produced progeny that competed at 3* or 4* level. If he is bred to a warmblood mare that does not have a full 5-generation pedigree, that foal can be registered by the new studbook only if that mare, or a mare in her damline, has evented at 3* or 4* level and/or has produced progeny that competed at 3* or 4* level.

            We are looking for serious breeders who are dedicated to breeding CCI/CIC horses. We are not interested in breeders who are using the wrong kind of marem be it TB or warmblood. There are many TB mares, and daughters of TB mares, that are useless for sport horse breeding. The breeder is ultimately responsible for figuring that out. Likewise there are many warmblood mares, and daughters of warmblood mares, that are useless for sport horse breeding. And the breeder if ultimately responsible or figuring that out also. According to my definition of "useless" probably 80-90% of mares used in breeding outside of the core continental breeding countries (Germany. France, Belgium, the Netherlands) are useless. In some countries the percentage is much higher.

            Please note the following. The only horses that will be "included" in the new studbook -- meaning the only horses that will be entered into the studbook and have a status -- are horses born into the studbook. For a discussion of this point please see my reply to post #24.
            Morningside Stud
            http://www.morningside-stud.com
            http://twitter.com/MorningsideStud
            http://www.facebook.com/MorningsideStud

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #26
              Originally posted by Lord Helpus View Post
              I found this list, compiled by the USEA, over on the Eventing forum. I researched pedigrees for almost all of these horses, trying to find a common thread or ancestor.

              http://useventing.com/news/young-eve...e-are-they-now

              Sadly, none jumped out at me except for Winfall's offspring. However, these are generally too young to have had the opportunity to succeed at the upper levels.

              I know this list only goes back to 2004 and is only comprised of US eventing classes, so it is far from a comprehensive study of eventing bloodlines, but still, I found the lack of commonality of bloodlines to be discouraging.

              PS: It seems to me that A Fine Romance should be on your list of charter stallions. He certainly fulfills all of your requirements.
              The lack of commonality is precisely our concern about eventing breeding. When we do see "commonality" it is almost always through a sire that has had many many foals (often 1,000 - 2,000) so of course we are going to see his progeny pop up in CCI/CIC classes, especially if that stallion stands in Ireland or the UK.

              To a great extent much eventing breeding is not eventing breeding at all -- we are seeing the "happy accidents" I wrote about for Horse International magazine. We are not interested in producing happy accidents; we are interested in producing top-level CCI/CIC horses with as much predictability that the Holsteiner Verband, and its breeders, produce top-level CSI horses.

              To return to the issue of status: The only horses that will be "included" in the new studbook -- meaning the only horses that will be entered into or registered by the studbook and have a status -- are horses born into the studbook. So the approved stallions and Main Book mares will be horses born into the new studbook. Stallions and mares that produce foals for the studbook will have no status in the studbook unless they themselves were born into the new studbook.

              Stallions used by breeders operating within the new studbook will have no status with the studbook. If it is a TB/AA/ShA stallion we will accept his progeny if they are out of mares that meet our criteria. But likewise those mares will not have a status with the studbook.

              In the case of half-bred stallions and warmblood stallions, they must be approved by a studbook recognized by the new studbook if the new studbook is to register their progeny.

              Why this approach? We want to work with serious and dedicated eventing breeders who know what they are doing. There is no credible way we could propose to "approve" stallions throughout the world. We leave it to the serious and dedicated breeder to make the right choicces and when mistakes are made to figure that out quickly.

              So we have not invited any stallion to affiliate or breed within or seek approval by the new studbook...and we willl not be doing so. Stallions that meet the studbook's criteria may produce foals for the studbook..but the new studbook's Approved Stallions will be only colt foals that were born into the new studbook that later get approved by the new studbook.
              Last edited by tom; Jan. 19, 2013, 03:50 PM.
              Morningside Stud
              http://www.morningside-stud.com
              http://twitter.com/MorningsideStud
              http://www.facebook.com/MorningsideStud

              Comment

              Working...
              X