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Thoughts on This Pedigree?

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  • Thoughts on This Pedigree?

    Just saw this mare today. Overall, a very nice looking mare. Unraced. I've been so fortunate with my TB girls, but two of my best are either retired or are very close so I'm looking for their replacements. This girl's pedigree originally caught my eye, but how good is it really? http://www.pedigreequery.com/puttanesca2 TIA!

  • #2
    That's a lovely female family. Dam is a half to a producer or multiple GSW horses, including a G1 winner. And of course 4th dam is quite famous.
    Could be gold in them thar hills, though maybe on the wrong continent.
    Have no idea what any of that means as a sport horse brood are though, which I'm presuming is what you're asking about, given it's on this forum.


    • #3
      Interesting--don't think I've ever seen that Missy Baba colt before. She was certainly one of the greats, and quite well known in eventer pedigrees, although usually through Raja Baba. Le Fabuleux/Wild Risk are also wonderful for sport--vineyridge has posted multiple times about that line, which would likely turn up on a search.

      3 x 4 is quite heavy on the Northern Dancer, so pay attention to soundness and any issues there, as those might come through. I would be cautious if the pasterns are short and upright, as there is a lot of Blandford in this pedigree and he was almost comically built in front. (Seriously!) Sometimes those pasterns also come through Wild Risk.


      • #4
        That's a very promising pedigree for sport. It's rare to see Endeavour so close these days. Almost all of the lines have produced FEI level competitors in jumping and eventing. Danzig is one of the top US TB lines for eventers at the upper levels these days, and he seems to be best on top. Fanfreluche was the dam of a stallion named Family Ties who was sent to Australia, where he was the sire of Ann Kursinski's Eros and also sire of at least two horses who ran one of the British 4*s in eventing, plus a number of other sport horses in Australia and (?) New Zealand.

        L'Extravagante was the dam of Montelimar who was the sire of TWO Aintree Grand National winners. One of those had Key To The Mint as second damsire. So one could say that combination wasn't a jump killer in that particular horse.

        Has she been a broodmare before? If she has foals on the ground, can you find video or photos of them? If she's been showing, that will tell you other things.
        Last edited by vineyridge; Jan. 6, 2013, 10:53 AM.
        "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
        Thread killer Extraordinaire


        • Original Poster

          Thanks guys! Viney, you must have a photographic memory :-) Can you tell me more about Endeavour? I'm not familiar with him.

          The farm has been slowly dispersing due to a divorce so the mare has just been in the field. She's had just one foal. Based on her type (her pasterns were aok Simkie!), her temperament (seemed quite sensible and easy going) and now what you guys have said about her pedigree, I may give her a swing :-).

          If anybody's interested, they did have another girl available to a good home with this pedigree: pedigreequery.com/liberal+edge. I didn't give her a hard look as she was out in pasture but she was very pretty, complete with dishy head. Bay with a star (maybe a sock or two? can't remember). She looked about 15.3 and pretty compact with a good topline. She did have a nasty scar on the front of hind cannon bone from a pasture injury but the owner said she is sound and that the scar was purely cosmetic and did not effect any tendons, ligament or joint. If you're interested, PM me and I can go get a picture of her. She's only 10 minutes away.
          Last edited by baywithchrome2; Jan. 6, 2013, 06:35 PM. Reason: typo


          • #6
            He was an import from Argentina. Good sire.

            Per Dr. Birdsall:

            He is the damsire of the Jumper Arrive Alive through his daughter, Merry Tune.

            He was deemed good enough to breed to Winter Rose and is found in the hunter pedigrees of Brave Tune, Curtain Call and Mink 'n Pearls and the jumper Rosie Report through their daughter Snow Bloom who was second dam to all of them through her daughter Brave Rose. Snow Bloom herself was the dam of a jumper named Snow Ridge. Of course Winter Rose was a very, very special mare who is also the dam of Miss Budweiser and Riviera Wonder.

            The book index lists him as in the pedigree of a horse named Everybody's Watching, but does not have that horse in the pedigree pages.

            He's also in the pedigree of a hunter named Super Flash as sire's damsire.

            He's the grandsire on top of the Jumper T.R., and he was the sire of the champion jumper and USET horse Unusual, also out of Winter Rose.

            What impresses the most is that they bred him to Winter Rose. The Winter Rose Family is very interesting indeed. Some of the tail females are still around and have been tried as race horses. There was a daughter by Bonne Nuit named Snow Mist who had a son with 75 starts.

            So, IMO, Endeavour is a nice name to find. Pretense is a little late to show up in the 1980's Dr. Birdsalls.

            Pretense is the sire of a horse named Daniel Boone who is the damsire of a good OTTB event horse named Parker; and he's the sire of Sham who was second to Secretariat in the Triple Crown. Sham is damsire of a current Australian 4* horse, and is second damsire of the stallion Legal Pressure, sire of Mark Todd's WEG horse, Grass Valley and a 2* Irish mare who was ridden by a Swede in FEI competition in Germany. Sham's son, Creative Pressure was exported to Ireland and was the sire of Clayton Fredericks's UL event horse Nullabor (6th at Burghley and 5th at Luhmuhlen 4*s) who died in a fall at Saumur. Creative Pressure was also sire of the stallion The Freak who has a grandson who has done very well with a Junior in Germany and went to the European Championships for Juniors twice with her.

            Hope that helps.
            Last edited by vineyridge; Jan. 6, 2013, 10:30 PM.
            "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
            Thread killer Extraordinaire


            • Original Poster

              Thanks Viney! You're awesome


              • #8
                I looked Pretense the other day while watching the Secretariat movie (which was terrible!)

                What struck me, because I keep my eye out for it because my mare shares the same female family is that it is also the family that produced Touch of Class via Fifinella.
                Equine Web Design http://www.tbconnect.net | Kingsgate Stud home of Legal Jousting (IRE)


                • #9
                  To make Endeavour even more interesting, he was the sire of a mare who was the dam of Hul a Hul by Native Dancer. Hul a Hul was the damsire of Master Imp, an Irish TB (recently deceased) who has been one of the very greats as an event sire. There are many more Endeavours who have done quite well in sport.

                  He was damsire of Tumble Wind who is the dam sire of the current German TB stallion Estaban who has several approved Holsteiner sons.

                  Endeavour is actually one of my reference lines. He's definitely a good one for jumping.
                  "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                  Thread killer Extraordinaire


                  • #10
                    Nothing to add regarding breeding lines, but WHO comes up with these names? "Cream Sauce" ? Hehe.


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Simkie View Post
                      Interesting--don't think I've ever seen that Missy Baba colt before.
                      Sauce Boat was quite a prolific broodmare sire, and is in fact the broodmare sire of Tabasco Cat.