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Would you breed to a draft cross?

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  • I don't know the history of the OP's "choice" of stallion posted (whether it is hers or not). Obviously there is past history and I don't have time to find it.

    What the heck IS the breeding? Now I'm curious.

    He seems like an affable guy and willing to work, but of course that's only one of a slew of reasons in deciding to male horse intact and used for breeding. Of ANY breed.

    What is he...a "Gypsyclydeobred"?
    www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
    "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
    Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JWB View Post
      They eat their mistakes. Literally.
      Exactly! And they find foal particulary delectible.

      Blech.
      www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
      "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
      Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

      Comment


      • He was a stallion named Freelance who was bred and born in Canada at Twin Valley Ranch. He is a frame overo silver dapple buckskin ½ paint and ½ draft. From Tye Dye Equine before he was sold to SporthorsesRus then....

        He turned into Wolny Mischiel

        Sporthorses R Us had him on her site as a Polish WB with a pedigree. It was stolen from a true Polish WB gelding. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jd4i6eMiHw

        She had him advertised as "Wolny Mischiel" at least she change the name so it wasnt the same as the horse for sale on youtube.

        Pedigree below:

        Lolek
        Wotum
        Werona

        Wolny Mischiel

        Arlin
        Wendeta
        Warmia


        He is not even recorded in RPSI book II and is not approved for breeding for any registry. That pedigree belongs to a European horse - NOT "Wolny Mischiel" - who is a draft cross from Canada - And doesn't appear to have a valid pedigree available anywhere. "
        Draumr Hesta Farm
        "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
        Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

        Comment


        • Geez. Horse breeding is very simple and clear when honesty abounds. Guess not with this one.
          www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
          "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
          Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

          Comment


          • Originally posted by sid View Post
            Exactly! And they find foal particulary delectible.

            Blech.
            OT, but we eat veal, and lamb, etc -same thing just different cultural perception. If you are a vegetarian good for you, talk all the smack about eating horses you want. Otherwise...

            BTW I hope the op (if not a troll) takes your advice to heart since you clearly know how to do the draft cross thing the RIGHT way

            Comment


            • JuperFyre if you look at todays Modern WB bloodlines, they are all "mutts" and many are sadly way to inbred, just as our TB and QH lines have gotten over the years.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by classicsporthorses View Post
                JuperFyre if you look at todays Modern WB bloodlines, they are all "mutts" and many are sadly way to inbred.
                Care to list some examples of these "way too inbred" warmbloods?

                Comment


                • And I will hazard a guess that the "horse or pony in the corner" is the companion of the draft stallion in question. And maybe he isn't so quiet and mannerly when his companion is out of sight...

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DownYonder View Post
                    And I will hazard a guess that the "horse or pony in the corner" is the companion of the draft stallion in question. And maybe he isn't so quiet and mannerly when his companion is out of sight...
                    Since the OP claims to board at the same barn maybe they can clarify what is going on with the critter in the corner.

                    Comment


                    • OP seems to have left the building.

                      OP? Allie? Please enlighten us.
                      APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by classicsporthorses View Post
                        JuperFyre if you look at todays Modern WB bloodlines, they are all "mutts" and many are sadly way to inbred, just as our TB and QH lines have gotten over the years.
                        It's hard to imagine an inbred mutt
                        I wasn't always a Smurf
                        Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                        "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                        The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by mbm View Post
                          so am i reading you folks correctly? either people need to breed the best of the best (aka horses that cost a lot of dough) OR they must settle for the rejects that are at slaughter plants?

                          really?

                          while i have no dog in this fight, when i watch the videos of the stallion i see a horse that is trying his heart out, whose temperament appears to be very good and who appears to be trained to 3rd level.....

                          those all appear to be traits that most ammies would really appreciate.

                          so my guess is most folks are attacking this one horse not because of who he is but because folks don't like his owner.
                          Seriously
                          Did we watch the same video
                          Even the "at liberty" (OK "at chase") doesn't show much dressage prospect in this stallion
                          Is he a sweetheart, maybe ...

                          On a more positive note, if that is 3rd level - excellent news!!! FP will be ready to go PSG this spring! <handsprings>
                          EXCEPT I'll need a new trainer, no way either current trainer will allow that ... hmmmm ... gets out the 411 ...

                          Comment


                          • I would only breed a TB to a draft cross and live with the knowledge that the foal could never be approved in any warmblood book and barred from most mare books also.

                            I would never breed a registered warmblood mare to a draft cross. I might breed a draft cross mare to a warmblood stallion for a baby only acceptable in an auxillary book (possibly acceptable).

                            If the stallion owner has been dishonest, you might end up infecting your mare with some disease and that would be a tragedy for a sandro hit dtr. You might also be getting a lot of nasty genes for shivers, wobblers, navicular, ocd, tie-ing up and cushings.

                            I implore you to go buy the baby you wish you had instead of breeding to the stallion down the road (er..aisle).

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DownYonder View Post
                              And I will hazard a guess that the "horse or pony in the corner" is the companion of the draft stallion in question. And maybe he isn't so quiet and mannerly when his companion is out of sight...
                              That was my initial thought too (babysitter down there??)

                              The stallion looked off, especially in the L-R half-pass, and definitely short strides with choppy, non-elastic gaits. I'll give that the bouncy, kick-kick-kicky rider may have given the illusion of a slightly lame horse, but the gaits and stride can't really be fixed.

                              He'd make a decent gelding for someone. And I sure as daylights wouldn't breed anything to him. Frankly, given the description, I wouldn't breed the mare, either.
                              "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique

                              Comment


                              • A friend recently bought a stunning Draft X baby. Sire was a TB, Mom was a TB/Perch cross. Incredibly athletic, amazing temperament. Now, keep in mind both Dad and Maternal Grandad were GP jumpers... which this one, well, is not...
                                "Adulthood? You're playing with ponies. That is, like, every 9 year old girl's dream. Adulthood?? You're rocking the HELL out of grade 6, girl."

                                Comment


                                • I understand wanting to breed for an amateur temperment, but why do people assume that also means non-athletic. Breeding is such a crap-shoot as it is. Even breeding the best to the best, you are likely to get some mediocre foals.

                                  If you start out shooting for mediocre, what are you going to get when that misses the mark?

                                  I'm not saying that cross breeding is a bad idea. I think a NICE draft cross definitely has a place and a purpose. This draft cross is not one that I would use though.

                                  My husband shows dogs. For years we had it drilled into our heads that all dogs must be championship line bred, pure breeds only, and that producing pet quality dogs is just plain irresponsible. I'm into dog sport, and these days I'm using hybrids (fancy term for a purposely bred mutt) because I've realized that sometimes (frequently) the cross will give me an animal that is better suited to my needs than one of an established breed.

                                  That being said, I don't do it myself. I get my puppies from sport breeders who KNOW what they are doing, from established sport lines. I still think the idea of breeding for pet homes is ridiculous. There are pounds full of pets, and most people breeding for the conformation ring are going to produce some "pet quality" dogs from their champions anyhow.

                                  The same goes for sport horse breeding. I don't think any responsible breeder should go in saying "gee, I hope I get a really quiet foal that only has the scope for 2'9 or 2nd level." There are plenty of stallions out there with GOOD personalities that can also jump around a big course, or have nice enough movement to do dressage competitively at the upper levels.

                                  There are TONS of fantastic mares on the free breeding lease forum. You can get a fantastic stallion's stud fee for <$1000 using service auctions and such. You might as well attempt to produce a really nice baby, because it's going to cost just as much to raise as a lower level prospect.

                                  With a well bred youngster, if you miss your mark and don't get a superstar, you should at least get "pretty good." What have you got if you shoot for "pretty good" and don't get what you hoped for?
                                  The rebel in the grey shirt

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by classicsporthorses View Post
                                    JuperFyre if you look at todays Modern WB bloodlines, they are all "mutts" and many are sadly way to inbred, just as our TB and QH lines have gotten over the years.
                                    Not sure what your definition of mutt is but 300 years of selective breeding with a goal in mind is hardly a mutt. The genetics is actually quite concise as in limited to a group. And as far a line breeding...it is a hallmark of any successful breeding program. The Morgan is also based on it as well the Arab as well as....any animal that is a purebred as consolidating genetics is how you create a purebred...
                                    The term inbred is used by people with a limited understanding of genetics.

                                    Comment


                                    • There are some really nice hanoverian stallions that have proven to have a stamp for good disposition and lovely canter. Perhaps some of them run a little under the radar, but i would not waste a mare of your breeding on a hybrid, as the genetic variability is too great.

                                      If you are fascinated by drafts, and wish to breed to one, you would do better to breed to a pure draft with the qualities that you prefer. It used to be an accepted theory, that the F1 generation is the best when out crossing. It is much mroe difficult to "fix" characteristics in the F2 generation, unless you breed like to like.

                                      Comment

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