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Minding your own business or ????

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  • Minding your own business or ????

    With all the discussions of hoarders, unpaid bills, etc., how does one tactfully handle these situations in the beginning before it escalates to some of the sad situations in the other threads? For example, a breeder owes multiple people money, but yet has been on here asking about stallion suggestions and still breeding horses that haven't been sold? When these things happen, the victim sometimes assumes that they are the only one but now it seems like there are multiple instances. But maybe the breeder just needs more time to pay off outstanding debts? It's human nature to give people the benefit of the doubt and nobody wants to be a busybody even though the excuses are wearing thin. A couple of comments on questionable care versus loads of internet support of said wonderful breeder? Sour grapes or ?
  • Original Poster

    #2
    In other words, what's a polite but effective way to say (without being rude, LOL) the OBVIOUS? Gee, Mrs. Breeder, wouldn't it make sense to pay money owed to other parties before buying more horses or breedings? Any maybe the joke about you being addicted to breeding is really not that funny any more?

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't know what the solution is, but when I brought up the issues in regards to this person 3 years ago, the feedback was negative. Overall, it was considered to be sour grapes from a competitor and no one believed the issues to be true as this person had weaved such a strong web presence. I also tried posting on her FB thread that she needed to pay her debts, but the feedback was that it was inappropriate to make these requests in a public forum. It did take so long for all this information to become public because of the large number defenders.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        This is actually another person but maybe another disaster in the making? They all have to start somewhere! Kudos to you for taking a stand. I think I have my answer by the lack of responses on this thread, unfortunately. There is no polite way to say the obvious, and it's very difficult to raise alarms without seeming like sour grapes. Is this exclusive to the horse industry? I know that there have been huge commission issues in the tb industry where somebody finally made a stand however.

        Comment


        • #5
          Not sure I understand exactly what is going on, but I think the stallion owners need to take her to court and/or not turn over any breeding certificates for the resulting foals. Aside from a friend or other person telling her that she should cut back breeding or hold off a year or two on breeding, I don't know that there is much anyone can do except take her to court for the costs. Unfortunately, sometimes people won't learn until it hurts them where it typically matters - the wallet.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            This particular question involves a different breeder, who owes lots of parties money, but yet is still breeding and racking up bills because we are just now putting the dots together. But it's very hard to find a tactful way to find out if these are isolated incidences without seeming like a gossip. More than three instances seems like a pattern.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              But this question also applies to anybody who is out racking up horse bills and yet owes people money. It seems obvious that a regular person would want to get their house in order before producing more.

              Comment


              • #8
                I think it's very tricky. Look at the "pintopiaffe" situation which came before the GFF situation.

                I made a mortal enemy out of a fellow breeder and former friend because I couldn't support her breeding decisions. Although ultimately she did significantly reform her program, her hatred and jealousy may outlive me. Was it worth it? Who knows. For the sake of the horses, I think I did the right thing. But it's a lot of drama I'd have rather done without and I've sometimes wondered -- if I'd bitten my tongue would she have eventually either buried herself or become more educated on her own?

                I don't think there is an easy solution.

                -Gigha
                River Oaks Farm - home of the Elite Book Friesian Sporthorse Grand Prix dressage stallion Lexington - sire of four consecutive FSA National Inspection Champions. Endorsing the FSA.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  I don't think there is an easy solution either but I know so many people have asked about the GFF situation, "why didn't anybody speak up?" but it's very hard to do until it turns into a total disaster. I wonder if it could have been "nipped in the bud" or if it was destined to turn out the way it did. Sadly, that's not the only strange situation out there.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RiverOaksFarm View Post
                    I think it's very tricky. Look at the "pintopiaffe" situation which came before the GFF situation.
                    There was the "spacley" person too. She was all over these boards for years, ripping people off and hoarding horses...no one said a thing publicly.

                    btw, there are others on these boards that I know of in CA. Hell, even Jill had her defenders to the very end.
                    On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      As PP says, there are others in CA. It is difficult to say anything to someone who you suspect is going off the deep end, but hasn't yet. In one case, there has been theft and attempted theft, but other than warning those who may become a victim, and waiting to see what happens to the horses, I'm at a loss as to how to proceed.
                      Mystic Owl Sporthorses
                      www.mysticowlsporthorses.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        For that matter, there was also the California Friesian breeder who pretended to be French royalty and a geneticist, and then faked her death.
                        River Oaks Farm - home of the Elite Book Friesian Sporthorse Grand Prix dressage stallion Lexington - sire of four consecutive FSA National Inspection Champions. Endorsing the FSA.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I find these situations frustrating as well. I know of a breeder with a similar reputation that password describes and even the people she hasn't paid wont bad mouth her. It's very odd. The breeder I am thinking of is very competitive and can spin quite a yarn. People more laugh it off, because she so consistently doesn't pay or pays very late. I just hope people have learned that a fancy website does not automatically equal ethical breeders.
                          It's pretty impossible to call someone out with out it seeming like sour grapes. I've never felt competitive with other breeders, I've always just wanted to breed the best I could and am not even breeding anymore. If someone specifally asked me if I'd recommend this breeder, I would say no. But I would never call them out, as we've seen with JB, too many people drinking the kool-aid.
                          As is our confidence, so is our capacity. ~W. Hazlitt

                          Gift Hill Farm

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I hear you, can't re.
                            Mary Lou
                            http://www.homeagainfarm.com

                            https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

                            Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Home Again Farm View Post
                              I hear you, can't re.
                              As is our confidence, so is our capacity. ~W. Hazlitt

                              Gift Hill Farm

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I may have been one of the first to call her out, when she refused to send papers for a weanling I took from her in a contracted agreement. The filly came very pot-bellied but now 3 and very healthy. I had to get Holly Simenson from GOV involved in getting the filly registered. Holly went to great lengths to see the situation favorably resolved. This was a huge thread at a time when Ms. Burnell had many supporters. I just pushed ahead in spite of the flack and stayed very honest about the whole miserable situation.

                                Diane Halpin/Laurel Leaf Hanoverians: Facebook

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by can't re- View Post
                                  I find these situations frustrating as well. I know of a breeder with a similar reputation that password describes and even the people she hasn't paid wont bad mouth her. It's very odd. The breeder I am thinking of is very competitive and can spin quite a yarn. People more laugh it off, because she so consistently doesn't pay or pays very late. I just hope people have learned that a fancy website does not automatically equal ethical breeders.
                                  It's pretty impossible to call someone out with out it seeming like sour grapes. I've never felt competitive with other breeders, I've always just wanted to breed the best I could and am not even breeding anymore. If someone specifally asked me if I'd recommend this breeder, I would say no. But I would never call them out, as we've seen with JB, too many people drinking the kool-aid.
                                  This sounds so similar! I want to help other people but don't want to be a "trouble-maker". And there are also situations where the trainer owes money on horse sales, but nobody can call out bnt for fear of seeming like a "problem client".

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by dianehalpin View Post
                                    I may have been one of the first to call her out, when she refused to send papers for a weanling I took from her in a contracted agreement. The filly came very pot-bellied but now 3 and very healthy. I had to get Holly Simenson from GOV involved in getting the filly registered. Holly went to great lengths to see the situation favorably resolved. This was a huge thread at a time when Ms. Burnell had many supporters. I just pushed ahead in spite of the flack and stayed very honest about the whole miserable situation.

                                    Diane Halpin/Laurel Leaf Hanoverians: Facebook
                                    Good for you, but so sorry that you had to go through that.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      No problem. The greed, false ads, hoarding, lack of organization, lack of honesty by Ms. Burnell seem to have come to their natural conclusion. I think it's important (in warning others) to speak up in these types of situations. A whole lot of problems in dealing with this dishonest woman by a whole lot of her clients came out pretty quickly due to this original thread in 2010.
                                      Last edited by dianehalpin; Dec. 31, 2012, 01:11 PM. Reason: spelling

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Maybe this thread will help some people who are bordering going off the deep end!

                                        If you can't afford to pay your debts, you can't afford to breed more horses.

                                        If you can't, won't, or can't afford to pay somebody to take decent care of your horses, you don't need to breed more horses.

                                        Sounds easy enough, right!

                                        Comment

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