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Advice for Best TB Stallions in Dressage & Jumping?

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  • Advice for Best TB Stallions in Dressage & Jumping?

    Hi folks. I'm new here; looking for some info on TB stallions. I have a Russian Budenny mare that was recently injured; she will be laid up for a whole year, but the injury is such that the vet ok-ed her for breeding.

    I have seen some info on Mount Etna and Favoritas, and am curious to know more. I liked that Mount Etna was quality enough to go to Landgestut Celle, but can't find a performance record beyond his race years and can't find any profile pics. I have someone interested in getting a foal out of my mare for dressage, which is why I'm interested in both dressage and jumper lines.

    Someone described my mare as being like a warmblood shrunk down; she's 15.2h but acts and moves big. She is typey, but her greatest skills are definitely in jumping. I think with the right sire her offspring could do decently in dressage. Sire was a Rubilnik-line showjumper; my mare was just finishing her training for a show season in hunter-jumpers when the accident happened. For this reason, I was also piqued by Favoritas; my mare has Rubilnik in her five gen's back...I am resistant to inbreeding, but this is an interesting opportunity.

    My mare's pedigree: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/kinaja

    My head is spinning looking at all these sires. What I would like is a kind temperament suitable for amateurs, no loss of my mare's lovely jump, and an improved elasticity of gaits for dressage. There was a Budenny stallion in Virginia that did Dressage and was producing lovely hunter and eventer babies, but he sadly passed away and the breeders are keeping his frozen semen for their own use.

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Oracle; Dec. 22, 2012, 03:53 PM. Reason: more appropriate title

  • #2
    Your mare is 1/2 Thoroughbred. I don't know any of the sireline. Posting a photo of your mare would be helpful since her type and conformation is a component to consider. How would you objectively describe her as far as strengths and weaknesses? How would you describe her gaits and her temperment? These things along with the pedigree and what you are hoping to accomplish are all components to consider as you make your choice. Have you had her reproduction equipment assessed? Good luck with your search and kudos for looking at Thoroughbred stallions!
    PennyG

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Yep, she's half TB; I can breed her to another TB according to the VNIIK Russian registry's 5/8th blood rule and still register her foal, but the next generation must be crossed back to another Budenny. PennyG...I remember that name from somewhere...wonder if we've met on the forums before??

      I have not gotten her checked for reproductive soundness yet, but might get that done at her next upcoming check-up. In stallions, I like the more WB-type of TB; sturdy legs and big feet, good bone and balanced muscle.

      Strengths:
      1] Extremely powerful hindquarters, and she uses them well (I have a lot of people ask me if she's QH.)
      2] Nice short back, beautiful walk (back hooves near touch the front hooves in each stride).
      3] Smooth trot and canter, it feels like butter.
      4] Fast and eager learner.
      5] Very affectionate to people and other horses.
      6] Natural jumper; jumps out the same way that she jumps in with each fence, keeps an even, balanced stride throughout a course and is easy to see distances on.

      Pro & Con:
      1] Very smart; it makes her extremely sensitive to all aids, makes her difficult for anyone other than a competent-to-advanced rider (trainer loved her for it though!), b/c when she gets frustrated she throws a hissy fit. Most of it is age (5 1/2 yrs), but she is independent by nature and is always testing and looking for a challenge. (in a foal I would like more tractability)
      2] Very brainy. If you don't give her a puzzle to figure out, she'll make up her own game, which is usually not the kind of game a rider/handler likes to play!

      Weaknesses:
      1] Because of her strong character, it makes her difficult to handle (heavy in the hand on the ground, and in the saddle acts more like a WB, i.e. would rather balk and rear than take off) for someone that doesn't have a good amount of horse experience.
      2] Her trot could be better. I prefer a floatier, flashier trot. She likes to carry her head high; trot improves when she drops her neck, but she generally likes to raise it and her movement becomes more stilted. She has been trained into a frame and looks beautiful when kept in it, but I think the trot could definitely be improved upon for a more natural elasticity. I probably am hard on her for this, because her half sister has an amazing trot.

      Let's see if this works:
      http://www.zalatoyranch.com/uploads/...05176_orig.jpg
      https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...80632610_n.jpg
      https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...56923885_n.jpg

      Comment


      • #4
        There is a picture of Mount Edna here--look under stallions/TB

        http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallionroster.shtml

        I was looking at Likoto for one of my mares.

        There are a few TB stallions who have done dressage. I know Sea Accounts was doing some straight dressage before returning to Eventing.

        http://www.debracysporthorses.com/De...rses/Home.html
        ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

        Comment


        • #5
          She sounds alot like my Trakehner mare, LOL. Oracle, I stood 2 Thoroughbred stallions for many years and still have frozen. My interest was primarily dressage and their babies competed well and also had a great jump. Good luck with your search.
          PennyG

          Comment


          • #6
            You may want to check out Just A Devil https://sites.google.com/site/cedarb...rmva/stallions He did some eventing, and has offspring competing to Intermediate level

            Comment


            • #7
              I have seen some Rather Well get that have been a very lovely improvement over their dams with regard to movement, and you would certainly not lose any jump by using him.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Wow, thanks everyone! bornfreenowexpensive, I saw those pics of Mt Etna...Wish there was a profile shot! And no mention anywhere of his temperament. I read about his owner preparing him for a Celle event right after she got him and it sounded like he needed work to calm down; don't know if that is a reflection on his temp or not; I love his look though.

                Wasn't too impressed by Sea Accounts, but that could be because I hear he produces mostly hunter get, and from the pics I saw he looked like he had a very TB way of going, flat, not very flashy.

                TKR, just out of curiosity, who were your stallions and do you still breed at all?

                Darlyn, Just a Devil is handsome. Wish there was more info about him/show record etc. on the site.

                Simkie, I tried searching for Rather Well but couldn't find any pics or info beyond a breeding auction on the Canadian Sport Horse Assoc.

                Anyone know anymore about Wilawander? I think he looks a little lightboned in the lower cannons and I don't like his shoulder in the profile pic, but that could be because he's turning towards the shot; my mare does that too...photogenic! Loved that lower pic of his dressage moves.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Wilawander --> http://www.superiorequinesires.com/s...ander_xx.shtml

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    They mostly market Rather Well on his Facebook page, I believe:

                    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rather...31373086946634

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sea Accounts has a couple of kids doing the hunters and doing quite well. One of the kids that started in the hunters started doing the jumpers in 2012 and has done extremely well. He is 7 y.o. and showed up to 1.15 this year. They plan to do higher divisions next year, they just weren't offered at a lot their local shows this year.

                      Most of his kids are eventing. One daughter, also 7 y.o., is CCI* qualified. There are a number of 4 and 5 y.o.s start who started their eventing careers this year with three winning at Novice this year with junior and amateur riders.

                      His oldest competing are the two 7 y.o.s listed.

                      Sea Accounts himself competed at 4th level with scores to 63% (regularly scored 7s and 8s for gaites). I made the decision to return to eventing last spring as I felt he was feeling stifled in the arena. He was 3rd at his first OP in 4 1/2 years and two weeks later won his last outing of the year at OP. He has to do two more Prelims in the spring in order to qualify to move up to Intermediate, but that is the plan as suggested by Mike Huber who is competing him. I do plan to return to dressage at some point and hope to get him to PSG.

                      This is his stadium round from his last outing this year. He was the only horse in his division of 15 to jump clean.

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0J_yRDmXlk

                      This is his cross country from the same event.

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_k7fLnHcMg

                      Unfortunately the quality of this video isn't very good, but this is a 4th One test that scored a 63% at Dallas Dressage Club Fall Show.

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcveDdkJDDE

                      Of course, he may not appeal to you and that's fine, but he IS one of a very few TB stallions who has successfully shown in "straight" dressage and jumping.

                      Good luck in your search.
                      www.debracysporthorses.com
                      Home of Sea Accounts xx
                      AHS/HV, ATA, GOV, RPSI, JC, AQHA, APHA, APtHA
                      "LIKE" www.facebook.com/SeaAccounts

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Darlyn, Just a Devil is handsome. Wish there was more info about him/show record etc. on the site.[/QUOTE]

                        His owner is really not an internet techie person, and she does not really market him.

                        Here are a few photos of Just A Devil that I have on my computer

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                        • #13
                          Innkeeper?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                            What I would like is a kind temperament suitable for amateurs, no loss of my mare's lovely jump, and an improved elasticity of gaits for dressage.
                            There's a stallion named Super Star who stands in VA who'll get you all that. Yes, he's an odd breed but he crosses well with TBs and WBs. Offspring do well in any discipline, including hunters. These horses are elastic.

                            This is my Super Star x TB mare. I attribute much of her ability to her sire as I have two others from the same mare (from BN eventing sires) who, although quite capable, don't have her degree of athleticism or intelligence.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You might look at either Watermill Rolex or Watermill Swatch. Rolex is at Celle--or was; Swatch is in Ireland and is marketed for dressage. IIRC, they are full brothers.

                              http://www.kylemorestud.com/index.ph...nid=56&page=56

                              Unfortunately Rolex seems to be only live cover.
                              Last edited by vineyridge; Dec. 23, 2012, 10:16 PM.
                              "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                              Thread killer Extraordinaire

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                A Fine Romance
                                The rebel in the grey shirt

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  A Fine Romance tb stallion has winning GP jumper and 3 star tb offspring. He also has a dressage grandson who competed in the Pan Am games. My homebred AFR tb daughter usually wins the dressage test and often has the best score of the HT at my Novice HTs. She is also a winning hunter, usually division Champion or Reserve at Amateur Adult Hunter and Adult Medal classes. I show at 2.9 and 3 ft. We have schooled 3.6 as well, it was no problem for her. She is my riding horse, so I have never had pros train or campaign her. So he is one for you to look at.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I will also suggest my cremello TB stallion - Guaranteed Gold - who competed in eventing and has offspring that are successfully competing in eventing, dressage and jumper

                                    www.TrueColoursFarm.com

                                    Many of his offspring out of a wide variety of breeds and types of mares can also be seen if you click on the "Foal" link

                                    Good luck in your search!
                                    www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                                    www.truecoloursproducts.com

                                    True Colours Farm on Facebook

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      TrueColours, what levels are his foals competing at now?

                                      You could look at Sea Lion, although he is similarly bred (through his sire) to Sea Accounts. He is competing at Advanced, and his sire Sea Salute has also produced a Grand Prix Dressage horse (Sea Lord), and three or more Prelim or above Eventers as well. Sea Lion is approved ATA and Old/ISR.

                                      Also, I absolutely love Just A Devil, and AFR and Sea Accounts both speak for themselves.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Wow, lots to looks at now. You folks have given me some great options.

                                        Comment

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