• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Update, postponed! Weaning is tomorrow, and I'm nervous.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Original Poster

    #41
    The above weaning plan sounds ideal (and closest to the way it's done in nature , but with my mare's tendencies--see post #37--it just isn't worth the risk to other people's animals.
    "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

    "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by Dr. Doolittle View Post
      The above weaning plan sounds ideal (and closest to the way it's done in nature , but with my mare's tendencies--see post #37--it just isn't worth the risk to other people's animals.
      Dr. Doolittle,

      Your concern for the other horses is thoughtful, but the reality is, the other horses will be fine. It is very simple and safe. Put the mare and foal out first, then turn out the boss of the herd (the one before the mare was out there) and turn him/her out. Then every 10 minutes turn out another horse in order of dominance. The mare will likely hurt no one, she will have to stick to her foal. If the other horses are mares it is even better. Lots of screaming, and stomping, but no injuries.

      Tim
      Sparling Rock Holsteiners https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/c...milies/yes.gif
      www.sparlingrock.com

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #43
        Thanks for the input!

        Unfortunately there is no herd other than the "foal herd" (4 weanlings of varying ages), and they don't seem to have a "boss" among them, per se--they play with each other, but are mostly pretty docile and settled.

        Putting my mare out with these foals (and her own at the same time) would be too much of a risk; her filly already has social and dominant tendencies, and I can only imagine what her dam might do in that situation (I've seen her in action with other horses many times, she is *very* dominant, might go after and hurt another foal as soon as look at it!)

        I would never want to put other's foals "in harm's way" and would be uneasy even taking the chance--I wouldn't be able to live with myself if she injured one of them as a result of trying this out.

        It's all moot, since the BM would never sign off on this idea.

        I *really* wish it were possible to do things in a more gradual way, but the BM has her mind made up that this is the way she wants to do it.

        I TRULY wish there could be some sort of compromise to suggest to her, not that she would listen, but the cold turkey way seems to be the only option at this point.
        "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

        "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

        Comment


        • #44
          I would use opportunity that the weaning has been postponed to find another place to keep them honestly.
          Making Your Ambitions a Reality at Secret Ambition Stables.
          Quality Welsh Ponies and Welsh Crosses bred for sport
          Facebook Page.
          Section A and Section B Welsh Ponies at stud

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by Dressage_Diva333 View Post
            I would use opportunity that the weaning has been postponed to find another place to keep them honestly.
            ^^^^^
            First and foremost about the horse.
            Rose Bud Ranch Sporthorses
            Like Us On Facebook!

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by Dr. Doolittle View Post
              ) her filly already has social and dominant tendencies, and I can only imagine what her dam might do in that situation (I've seen her in action with other horses many times, she is *very* dominant, might go after and hurt another foal as soon as look at it!)
              Having lived her entire life with only her mother just *might* be the cause for her lack of socialization. Just saying.

              ----

              Originally posted by Dr. Doolittle View Post
              I *really* wish it were possible to do things in a more gradual way, but the BM has her mind made up that this is the way she wants to do it.

              I TRULY wish there could be some sort of compromise to suggest to her, not that she would listen, but the cold turkey way seems to be the only option at this point.

              I see your location listed as Fairfax, VA. There are definitely other options where your mare and foal could be handled and treated in a more....I'm going to be polite and say logical, way

              And now to cease being polite: your BM/BO really, really does not sound like she knows what she is doing. She may have done things this way forever, and it *may* have worked out "okay" in the past but everything she's "insisting" upon seems pretty whackadoodle to me. Just because she's been raising foals for a long time doesn't mean she's done it *well.* OP, for the sake of your mare and foal, please don't assume that longevity equals expertise in this case.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #47
                Alas, my options are limited in this area; despite "horse country" being just west of where I live (with the obscene amount of traffic and development between me and horse country meaning an hour on the road to go 25 miles ), there simply aren't a lot of farms that cater to mares AND foals--and I wanted to have them at a place where my filly could be weaned with other foals, and go out in a small, stable foal herd afterwards (which is what the BM has.)

                I did "research my options", and reached out to everyone I could before my mare even foaled out; there aren't as many places as you might think which would fit the bill. I was trying to find someone who was trustworthy (she has a good rep), who had a *lot* of experience with babies--which this BM has--and who would also be willing to keep my mare and foal in a separate pasture (see my previous posts about my mare's attitude towards other horses...)

                She was also willing to be flexible WRT a place to keep my mare "post weaning" (one of her rare accommodations!)

                I am really reluctant to move them in the middle of winter, without help (she has hauled them for me in her stock trailer--both from ERC to her place, and back and forth to their inspection.) I would have to remove the partition from my Hawk 2-horse, and hope they both fit in there. I have not had an opportunity to practice loading, obviously.

                I would REALLY like to be able to weather the storm (as it were) and stay put until after the filly has been weaned, especially since moving them hastily and impulsively from a stable environment (that they are used to)--especially at this time of year--would not be good for them.

                kadenz, the filly is very interested in other horses she sees, and is always trying to "socialize" with them from her pasture (they are separated with double fencing in adjacent pastures.) She is a very self-confident girl, hence my thought that she would likely move to the top of the pecking order when turned out with other babies, but would also be very happy to have playmates!

                I am frustrated and worried, I need to trust somebody to do the right thing here (which I thought would be my BM, since I'm not the mare and foal expert), but it's *very* difficult to deal with her and she is not open to any suggestion from me. I don't want to confront her and get her "back up" since she can always decide to kick us out, and I would have nowhere to go at the moment!
                "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

                "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

                Comment


                • #48
                  You must feel so helpless, I am so sorry. I understand wanting to assert your wishes for your own animals but fearing repercussions so you keep your mouth shut. I would have my tongue twisted up in knots by now. I know there is room at my barn if you run into an emergency. If nothing else that would buy you some time. They will fit into your trailer with the divider out just fine, I have done it with two yearling colts as well as a mare and HUGE foal.
                  McDowell Racing Stables

                  Home Away From Home

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #49
                    Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                    You must feel so helpless, I am so sorry. I understand wanting to assert your wishes for your own animals but fearing repercussions so you keep your mouth shut. I would have my tongue twisted up in knots by now. I know there is room at my barn if you run into an emergency. If nothing else that would buy you some time. They will fit into your trailer with the divider out just fine, I have done it with two yearling colts as well as a mare and HUGE foal.
                    Thanks so much, Laurie! And yes, exactly...

                    Bless you for your understanding and kindness.

                    I was explaining all of this to my father, and he said: "she has two hostages", so this limits my options for the moment; they are in her care and I am an hour away...

                    I'm doing my best (and just trying to do what's best for them!)
                    "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

                    "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Dr. Doolittle View Post
                      Thanks for the input!

                      Unfortunately there is no herd other than the "foal herd" (4 weanlings of varying ages), and they don't seem to have a "boss" among them, per se--they play with each other, but are mostly pretty docile and settled.

                      Putting my mare out with these foals (and her own at the same time) would be too much of a risk; her filly already has social and dominant tendencies, and I can only imagine what her dam might do in that situation (I've seen her in action with other horses many times, she is *very* dominant, might go after and hurt another foal as soon as look at it!)

                      I would never want to put other's foals "in harm's way" and would be uneasy even taking the chance--I wouldn't be able to live with myself if she injured one of them as a result of trying this out.

                      It's all moot, since the BM would never sign off on this idea.

                      I *really* wish it were possible to do things in a more gradual way, but the BM has her mind made up that this is the way she wants to do it.

                      I TRULY wish there could be some sort of compromise to suggest to her, not that she would listen, but the cold turkey way seems to be the only option at this point.
                      *******

                      In the breeding business...the important "part" is the foal and his welfare. If the mare is a bit**, put her by herself when you move the baby to the kid's playground...sedate the mare if necessary. Put the foal with the other babies for company for a couple of days, then return to the mare at night...or not!!! I would NOT sedate a baby or put it in a solitary confinement situation. With companion foals, your foal will settle more easily. Is the mare kept alone at all other times?? If so she will have to adjust...but the baby needs friends!!
                      www.crosscreeksporthorses.com
                      Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #51
                        Originally posted by crosscreeksh View Post
                        *******

                        In the breeding business...the important "part" is the foal and his welfare. If the mare is a bit**, put her by herself when you move the baby to the kid's playground...sedate the mare if necessary. Put the foal with the other babies for company for a couple of days, then return to the mare at night...or not!!! I would NOT sedate a baby or put it in a solitary confinement situation. With companion foals, your foal will settle more easily. Is the mare kept alone at all other times?? If so she will have to adjust...but the baby needs friends!!
                        I can suggest this (not sure how well it will go over, HA! ), BM was planning to move the mare and keep her by herself in a stall until she chills out anyway (mare doesn't have an issue being in a stall, or being by herself--but she is still besotted with her filly.) I guess the worry would be that mom would scream for the baby from the stall, which is in earshot of the foal field.

                        If removed from mom and put out with other foals, might my filly jump the pasture fence to get back to mom if she is in the barn 100 feet away, calling? Or run the fenceline? Too bad we can't muffle my mare...

                        I am welcome to all reasonable suggestions (and thanks to everyone), but keep in mind that insisting that BM do things differently than she has planned to will go over like the proverbial lead balloon. She bats aside "suggestions" :-/
                        "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

                        "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          OP I really feel for you and I hope everything works out OK. The one thing that really concerns me in most of your posts is that it should be all about YOUR wishes in how the weaning should occur and not your BO. You own the mare and foal, you are paying for board and services...it should be all about what you want and what you think is best. As the owner, you should have significant decision making. Good luck!

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #53
                            Originally posted by Ticker View Post
                            OP I really feel for you and I hope everything works out OK. The one thing that really concerns me in most of your posts is that it should be all about YOUR wishes in how the weaning should occur and not your BO. You own the mare and foal, you are paying for board and services...it should be all about what you want and what you think is best. As the owner, you should have significant decision making. Good luck!
                            Thanks, ticker--I really appreciate the support

                            I agree, I need to keep this in mind, and you are not the first person who has reminded me of this. I second-guess myself because I am *merely* a "long-time horse person with 35-40 years of experience" (and a trainer, also), but I am NOT a mare and foal expert, so I defer to those who are.

                            I think it may be time to talk to the BM on the phone about this stuff and assert myself--or at least get the dialogue going about this--though she is SO dang busy that it's difficult to pin her down for a real chat. We text, and she only calls me if she CAN'T text, or when my filly jumps out of the field over a 4' gate. To her credit, she was very calm (but now I dread calls from her; a text means "it's not an emergency"!)
                            "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

                            "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Sounds like you have several problems here with the BO being number one!! I'm lucky that I've never had to board, but in my mind...the one who pays the bills gets a BIG say in what is done with the "payer's" animals!!! Take a deep breath, stand up straight and go talk to the BO in person. Eventually, unless both mom and foal live out their lives in secure stalls...they will have to get turned out. A reputable farm should have safe, escape proof turn outs for all their horses...foals included. This scenario is sounding more and more like a disaster in the making. I can't imagine a foal raised with no social interaction other than its mother on a "horse farm"!! And you don't have to be an expert on foal raising to figure out the best action....there are many books on the subject. Just because your BO has "experience" doesn't mean it is all good!! More good luck sent...sounds like you are going to need it. You might consider taking up some of the offered help from other COTHers in your area.
                              www.crosscreeksporthorses.com
                              Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                I have been on both sides of this equation and I know for a fact I have been asked to do some weird ass stuff to horses and probably asked people to do weird ass stuff to mine. Assuming I didn't think it would be putting the horse in imminent danger I did as I was asked as did the people I asked to do weird stuff to my horses. Whoever writes the check is the boss in my book! I did have to ask one guy to either buy me out or me buy him out because his micro-managing was driving me nuts, but the horse was half mine. Had it been all his I would have sucked it up.
                                McDowell Racing Stables

                                Home Away From Home

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  I am also "blessed" with a few bitchy mares who I don't dare put out with other mares' foals. So their babies have to put up with mom until weaning time.
                                  When weaning time approaches we start putting the babies together, with moms on the other side of the fences. We also limit moms' space so they don't run around like lunatics and get babies upset.
                                  These are two boys I weaned last year, the first time out together:

                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13nMhC5mYj4

                                  We kept them together until they started looking upset and then put them back with moms. Did this every day, a little bit longer each time, until they were totally comfortable and then they just stayed together.
                                  The same year, I also had a filly, who was born later and whose mother had colic surgery after foaling. So she was weaned much later. We put her in with the two boys and followed the same procedure.
                                  This was day one:

                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0syR4uER0I

                                  Mom is behind the far gate, by the blue bucket, as you can see she is not at all upset.
                                  After a few days the filly stayed with the boys and they became the best of friends. Mom also got a room-mate, the gray mare in the background who she had befriended over the gate.
                                  This system has worked well for my horses and reduces the stress to a minimum.
                                  You might remind your BO that if things don't work out you get to pay the vet and bear any loss that might ensue !
                                  Good luck !
                                  http://sporthorsesnw.com/
                                  https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sport...01526589966216

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #57
                                    elfe, first off, your horses are STUNNING!! Wow!

                                    And so great that you have fiber? footing for them in their T/O, this must really help prevent slipping and sliding

                                    Yours seems like a very reasonable way to first separate mom and baby; you have a good set-up for this. I really like the fact that they are able to see each other and "check in", but the mare is contained so she can't run. The way my BM's farm is laid out would make this impossible: there are big, square fields, some of which share a fenceline, but many of which have a double fence separation--and ALL of which already have regular occupants.

                                    There is no way to put mom in an adjacent field by herself (or anywhere near baby in a "confined area") while turning baby out with the other foals.

                                    You also have good sturdy fencing there! BM's farm is older, so has the standard three board fencing--but non of the fencing has been replaced for awhile. None of the horses seems to get into trouble because the fields are so big, they generally don't congregate near the fenceline.

                                    Yes, vet bills I fully insured my filly for mortality and major medical...

                                    ARGH. In restrospect, I AM glad I postponed, since we got a ton of rain overnight on Thursday, and now are getting lots of gusty wind! I guess it won't hurt to put this off, though it's postponing the inevitable--and the chances for a "spell of decent weather" diminish this time of year.

                                    Doesn't weaning them a little later make it easier? (she asks, hopefully?)
                                    "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

                                    "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      You can wait as long as it takes. Usually by 6 months both mare and foal are so much more relaxed about the whole process. Your baby needs friends that have been turned out with it. Mare needs to leave.
                                      Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse & Jennifer Oliver Equine Insurance Specialist

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Dr. Doolittle, what you are looking at (where the mares are) is just double fencing sectioned off. The one mare just has a gate on one side and a piece if electric fence on the other, making it about 12' by 20'. But I do agree that the fence needs to be solid.
                                        The stuff on the ground is what they call "hogs fuel", basically tree bark, chips, etc., by product of milling. It is popular here in the Pacific North West, but tends to get mucky when it rains a lot and decomposes. I am an East coast ex-pat and have not scienced this out copmpletely !
                                        Hope all goes well with your "kids" !
                                        http://sporthorsesnw.com/
                                        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sport...01526589966216

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Elfe- You filly is stunning!
                                          Draumr Hesta Farm
                                          "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
                                          Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X