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Sa Couer

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  • Sa Couer

    Just saw that World Champion Sa Couer sold for 2,310,000 Euro at the PSI Auction. I can only dream!
    It's not true that I had nothing on. I had the radio on.”
    ? Marilyn Monroe

  • #2
    I find it very interesting that this horse is DOUBLE line-bred; Sandro Hit (3/4) and Donnerhall (4/5). Such a concentration of bloodlines. Clearly it did work.

    http://psi-auktion.de/front_content....6&changelang=9

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      When it works its great and when it doesn't work it's a disaster. Amazing how it worked so good for this horse. I had been considering line breeding my mare but have decided not to. You really have to be brave if you are going to try. Would be interesting to see some full siblings if there are any.
      It's not true that I had nothing on. I had the radio on.”
      ? Marilyn Monroe

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Emy View Post
        I find it very interesting that this horse is DOUBLE line-bred; Sandro Hit (3/4) and Donnerhall (4/5). Such a concentration of bloodlines. Clearly it did work.

        http://psi-auktion.de/front_content....6&changelang=9
        Would really appreciate someone talking through the stance of hind leg conformation and the mechanics that it produces. I just think it looks odd, with the hind legs completely standing and moving underneath. This is clearly being represented as "perfection" so would really appreciate feedback. TIA

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't think any 5 year old can be considered to be perfection. Personally I think Sa Coeur looks to have a long, weak loin and short croup. It will be interesting to see how he learns to sit in piaffe when he's older. I'd much rather study Valegro's conformation to work out what is needed to be the best dressage horse in the world. He looks very different behind the saddle from this horse and has looked very different from a very young age. In other words the difference is not just due to training and maturity.

          IMHO 2 million + Euros for a 5yo gelding is simply insane!

          Comment


          • #6
            Stolensilver - my thoughts regarding conformation are the same. Under saddle one just notices the short, flattish croup, but walking one can see the back is longer than ideal, and not strong in the loin area. Yes, it will be interesting to see what the future holds.
            Sunny Days Hanoverians
            http://www.sunnydayshanoverians.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sunnydays View Post
              Stolensilver - my thoughts regarding conformation are the same. Under saddle one just notices the short, flattish croup, but walking one can see the back is longer than ideal, and not strong in the loin area. Yes, it will be interesting to see what the future holds.
              I agree as well, and will add to that that his angles in his whole hind end are less than ideal. He seems like a nice horse, but 2.3M Euro is a lot of money!
              Kris
              www.edgewoodmeadowfarm.com
              Like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/edgewoodmeadowfarm

              Comment


              • #8
                Although I do love Sir Donnerhall, this horse isn't really my cup of tea and he does display that flat croup/less than ideal hindleg that he can sometimes throw. 2.3 million Euro is crazy for any 5 year old, but even if I had that kind of money to spend he's not the horse I would pick.
                www.saraalberni.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Does anyone have a conformation photo of Valegro? Or any of the other top horses from this year's Olympics? I've tried google but didn't do very well (did get Valegro's dam though) and I find this stuff fascinating.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by joiedevie99 View Post
                    Does anyone have a conformation photo of Valegro?
                    Here's one of Valegro

                    http://www.horseandcountry.tv/news/2...-feed-balancer

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      First the line breeding is not that close...obviously they know what they are doing making the cross. I agree that he is not a slam dunk for an upper level horse as is but he is not done growing. I would expect he will come up more in front by the time he is an 8 yo. Strengthening the loin is something you can do. It is interesting to look at he and Valegro and how different the balance of the hind leg triangle are. Valegro is short from point of butt to stifle and long from point of hip to point of butt. Sa Cour is longest from POint of Butt to stifle. I wonder how that will change as he matures.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think that it's a little unfair to compare conformation - especially when it comes to muscling of the rear end - of a 5-year old to that of a 10-year old horse that is (more than) confirmed at GP. Valegro looks like the powerhouse he's destined to be looking at his pedigree and his training, but I guarantee you that he looked quite different as a youngster. You could "ding" him on certain aspects of his conformation (i. e. shorter front leg, deep neck set, etc. etc.), but in the end it's the horse's constitution and not so much its conformation that allows him to be successful in the sport.

                        So I say let's give Sa Coeur the benefit of the doubt and wait and see how he develops under his new rider, and then let's have this conversation again in 5 years....
                        Siegi Belz
                        www.stalleuropa.com
                        2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
                        Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by siegi b. View Post
                          I think that it's a little unfair to compare conformation - especially when it comes to muscling of the rear end - of a 5-year old to that of a 10-year old horse that is (more than) confirmed at GP. Valegro looks like the powerhouse he's destined to be looking at his pedigree and his training, but I guarantee you that he looked quite different as a youngster. You could "ding" him on certain aspects of his conformation (i. e. shorter front leg, deep neck set, etc. etc.), but in the end it's the horse's constitution and not so much its conformation that allows him to be successful in the sport.

                          So I say let's give Sa Coeur the benefit of the doubt and wait and see how he develops under his new rider, and then let's have this conversation again in 5 years....
                          Don't think anyone was actualy comparing like for like Seigi Of course we can't compare a five year old with a 10 year old that is competing at Grand Prix.

                          Stolensilver simply suggested that it would be a good idea to look at Valegro as an example of optimal conformation for success at GP as we know that the Ferro / Ulft lines are reknown for passing on the ability for collected work.

                          Of course Sa Couers' loin and quarters have plenty of time to develop, sometime looseness in this area provides suppleness and provides greater fluidity in movement providing greater expression in the paces and as they strengthen, collected work becomes easier.

                          The loin connection was raised by others, I really wanted feedback on the hind limbs as Sandro Hit has often been criticised for his hind leg stance and seeing it three times in this pedigree seems to have brought it to the fore.

                          He certainly has amazing length of stride and the limbs come well underneath them, my question is do people see this as an advantage or a weakness for upper level work, will it aid or will it cause greater strain on the hocks as time passes.

                          None of us have had the opportunity to ride the horse either and assume that the buyer would have and perhaps, above all, he gave the rider a fantastic feeling, repsponsiveness, obedience and willingness, good ole ridability, all factors that add to placing a value on a horse right?
                          Last edited by L&L; Dec. 11, 2012, 06:36 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think Sa Coeur gets criticized more than necessary because of his price tag... I agree with the folks that think 2 Mil is more than any young horse is worth, but that doesn't mean that I then have to try to find as many faults with the horse as possible to justify my argument. I'd be very happy to produce youngsters like Sa Coeur on a regular basis - as a matter of fact, that has been my goal all along. He's well put together, has gaits to die for, and seems to be a nice guy on top of it all. We should all be so lucky in our breeding efforts!

                            Next time there is another high-priced youngster let's play the other game... let's try to find as many good things about the animal as we can. You'll be amazed how much more fun and educational that is.
                            Siegi Belz
                            www.stalleuropa.com
                            2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
                            Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              So strange to see people fussing over other people attempting to gain knowledge about what makes a horse good / bad.

                              Is that not the entire point to this forum. Providing the platform to allow encourage dialog about breeding and its products.

                              He is a lovely horse clearly one someone felt was worth 2.3 Million Euros.

                              Comparing him to other successful or even popular horses is natural. If we are all aiming to be better breeders it is informative to hear others perspectives.
                              Last edited by Lynnwood; Dec. 11, 2012, 04:39 PM.
                              "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                http://images.search.yahoo.com/image...mb=qKFp1puXVhj


                                I think this is Valegro at 5 or six. Its just not even fair to compare. The horse is a juggernaut of amazing. The only thing is that the figure means at the same level so its ok to compare IMO
                                ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
                                http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

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