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Let's talk about Arabian/WB crosses

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  • #61
    The whole marketability issue is why I breed only for my personal use and not with sales in mind.

    My mare is also broad backed, I use the x-wide gullet on my Bates CC saddle.
    Last edited by rider25; Nov. 27, 2012, 03:12 PM. Reason: add info

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    • Original Poster

      #62
      Originally posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
      Just an observation on sales. I think the arabxwb cross has to be nicer than a straight wb to sell for the same money, if that makes sense. My friend had an arab/wb (bay with chrome) registered GOV, and she had a hard time selling her as many had preconcieved ideas about "spooky arabians." I'm not saying I believe this is true of all arabians, so please don't bite my head off, but this was the experience she had with a horse trained through second level. I think she should have gotten twice the money she did.

      She was also difficult to saddle fit--very broad backed. That could just be her though.

      I learned how to ride on (full) arabians and have a soft spot for them. They were more "alert" than everyone else's QH however, and a couple were definitely reactive in type. Often I find the (sometimes older) ammie who is interested in a smaller horse also really wants a super quiet horse.

      Again, I'm not saying every arabian is that way! You all have posted some beautiful crosses (I wish I could access FB at work Tamara! I want to see the Landkoenig cross). I just think any time you go outside the box you are facing a bit of an uphill battle. Still worth the endeavor though!
      Thanks for chiming in. I hope no one flames you for your observations, so not the point of this thread. I wish the perception of Arabians was different, but its not. I know once people see and ride a good one that changes, but its just by personal experience. Its kinda funny that I see way more WB's that are too hot and too spooky than I do Arabians.

      Saddle fit can be difficult - true. My Escudo II filly is an easy fit, thanks to her having nice withers, but her momma... I went thru a couple of saddles before I found a good one for her. The Landkoenig colt has better withers too, so I think he'll be good when he grows up. I think when we breed this cross, breeder's need to be aware of producing babies with good to excellent saddle position, withers that tie in well to the back are very important as many of us know.

      Another Landkoenig fan! Landi was my first major WB crush, never thought in a million years that I would have a mare to breed to him, since I have Arabians, his size kinda scared me. So glad I did it! LOVE this colt, just wish he was a filly so I could keep him
      http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #63
        Originally posted by rider25 View Post
        The whole marketability issue is why I breed only for my personal use and not with sales in mind.

        My mare is also broad backed, I use the x-wide gullet on my Bates CC saddle.
        This is why I bred my first one too, for personal purposes. I've had such a positive response to her and a few decent offers (she's not for sale), that I decided to do it again. 2 colts this year, one sold and the other has had more responses than any other foal I've listed for sale. So I think there may be a maket out there for this cross. I'll be breeding only 1 WB/Arabian for 2014 - need to breed a replacement filly for the Hano mare, so she's being bred to Escudo II, actually both mares are being bred to E II in hopes of 2 girls My long term plan is to take the Hano crosses back to Hano. But right now just trying to breed very nice smaller riding horses for us vertically challenged people.
        http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #64
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ml54...feature=relmfu

          This is my Landkoenig colt at his AHS Inspection. Wish the light was better, but it is what it is - LOL Hoping TrotTrot Pumpkin can watch Youtube at work
          http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
            Just an observation on sales. I think the arabxwb cross has to be nicer than a straight wb to sell for the same money, if that makes sense. My friend had an arab/wb (bay with chrome) registered GOV, and she had a hard time selling her as many had preconcieved ideas about "spooky arabians." I'm not saying I believe this is true of all arabians, so please don't bite my head off, but this was the experience she had with a horse trained through second level. I think she should have gotten twice the money she did.

            She was also difficult to saddle fit--very broad backed. That could just be her though.

            I learned how to ride on (full) arabians and have a soft spot for them. They were more "alert" than everyone else's QH however, and a couple were definitely reactive in type. Often I find the (sometimes older) ammie who is interested in a smaller horse also really wants a super quiet horse.

            Again, I'm not saying every arabian is that way! You all have posted some beautiful crosses (I wish I could access FB at work Tamara! I want to see the Landkoenig cross). I just think any time you go outside the box you are facing a bit of an uphill battle. Still worth the endeavor though!
            I can understand why people might think this way - and why Warmblood-Thoroughbred cross mares/stallions might be in the same position.

            You can't be sure what you're going to get in the next generation when you've crossed two horses that are significantly different. Will the babies be big or small? Will they look more like an Arabian or a Warmblood?

            I will be breeding two of my crosses that have been approved into the GOV books to warmblood stallions this year. It will be interesting to see what comes out. My hope is that if I pick stallions that are very much like my mares, the offspring will be more predictable.

            Linda
            Fiery Run Farm
            www.fieryrunfarm.com
            co-author of
            Duel for the Crown: Affirmed, Alydar, and Racing's Greatest Rivalry
            www.duelforthecrown.com

            Comment


            • #66
              Kind of an off topic question but still related..

              Anyone have any thoughts on why so little French AA's around? I mean they have played significant roles in the WB lines such as Ramzes, Matcho, Inschallah, Burnus, Arlequin, Matador etc..

              I would think that if breeders were really interested in bringing in the Arabian influence why not use AA's? Where have they all gone? The last one I knew of that was around was Baladin D'Oc..

              I am truly just curious - they just seem to make big impacts on breeding..
              Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
              " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
              Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by EquineLVR View Post
                Kind of an off topic question but still related..

                Anyone have any thoughts on why so little French AA's around? I mean they have played significant roles in the WB lines such as Ramzes, Matcho, Inschallah, Burnus, Arlequin, Matador etc..

                I would think that if breeders were really interested in bringing in the Arabian influence why not use AA's? Where have they all gone? The last one I knew of that was around was Baladin D'Oc..

                I am truly just curious - they just seem to make big impacts on breeding..
                Well, given that there are plenty of homegrown AAs in the states, why spend all that money importing one. I realize that some people think that it's better if it comes from Europe, but I think if you're a good horseman, you can certainly find excellent AAs here.
                co-author of
                Duel for the Crown: Affirmed, Alydar, and Racing's Greatest Rivalry
                www.duelforthecrown.com

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by SportArab View Post
                  Well, given that there are plenty of homegrown AAs in the states, why spend all that money importing one. I realize that some people think that it's better if it comes from Europe, but I think if you're a good horseman, you can certainly find excellent AAs here.
                  I dont care where they come from.. just asking if there are any...if you know of any please share..
                  Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
                  " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
                  Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Baladin D'Oc was not an F1 Anglo Arabian though. You had to go back 4 generations to get to the first full Arabian, and 7 generations before you find one in the mareline. I suspect by that point you'd have a much more cemented type. I love a good half arabian and if I had access to one like him, I'd be right there in line to use him. I'd be a lot more leery about an F1 personally... but call me in a few generations!

                    I absolutely think it would be a fantastic undertaking to see someone commit to breeding the Anglos to Anglos. They're such a nice type and it would be great to see them consistently reproduce themselves.
                    The rebel in the grey shirt

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      My newish mare is an Arab/Dutch (harness horse) cross.

                      Sort of warmbloodish.

                      I really wanted a part arab as there is a decent circuit here, and it openned up my options for showing (dressage). I had a heck of a time finding anything with a decent start though, as the arab trainers seemed to want them behind the verticle, and I couldn't find much that wasn't out of an arab program.

                      I really like her size, work ethic, and general appearance. I like that she has some width to take up my leg, so even though I am tall, I could get away with a smaller beast.

                      Although I hope I never have to buy a horse for myself again, I would look for another arab cross if I was back in the market.
                      Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by SportArab View Post
                        You can't be sure what you're going to get in the next generation when you've crossed two horses that are significantly different. Will the babies be big or small? Will they look more like an Arabian or a Warmblood?
                        www.fieryrunfarm.com
                        Absolutely true, Full sisters, totally different types of horses. The older was big and had more of an uphill build, with a higher set neck, and a bit of knee action. She screamed I should be a dressage horse, but hated it. I tried for several years and finally gave up and went to jumper land with her.
                        My mare, the younger sister is smaller, but still has a good sized body after she matured, more of a hunter carriage, no knee action. She moves and acts like a hunter.
                        Both mares were/are jumping fools, neither one of them ever thought of stopping, ever. The older one finally learned to back off once the fences hit 3'6". If she hadn't gotten hurt, I think she had 4' easy and probably at least 4'6" (with the trainer). The younger one did get me back into jumping berfore a pasture accident sidelined her for a year, then we adopted a baby, so she is still on vacation. I plan to breed her next year, then in 2015 she will hopefully be back in the show ring with me. I would like to see what this mare can really do as we have been hit of miss for the last several years.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          I have one - 3/4 Hanoverian, 1/4 Arabian. Her dam (my old mare) was by a Pik Bube II / Weingau son, and out of a purebred Arabian with mostly Crabbet bloodlines (although had a bit of Bask several generations back). I played around in dressage with the dam before breeding her - put her to Feiner Stern twice, and Werbellin one time before putting her back into work. My current mare is the second Feiner Stern daughter. She is - as we laughingly refer to her - the little red dragon. She is super forward, sensitive, super willing, and very, very smart - learns most things very quickly, and is very eager to show you all her tricks. She is almost too smart, though - once she does a test a few times, she thinks she can do it all by herself (doesn't help that she is a chestnut mare! ). She is schooling 3rd Level but hasn't been shown since doing the hunters at age 3 and 4 (she is now coming 12). She did go to her first dressage show a month or so ago (schooling show) and did okay at 2nd Level Test 3 - esp. for such a "greenie"). I will have to hunt around and see if I can find a photo to upload - she's pretty cute.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by DownYonder View Post
                            I have one - 3/4 Hanoverian, 1/4 Arabian. Her dam (my old mare) was by a Pik Bube II / Weingau son, and out of a purebred Arabian with mostly Crabbet bloodlines (although had a bit of Bask several generations back). I played around in dressage with the dam before breeding her - put her to Feiner Stern twice, and Werbellin one time before putting her back into work. My current mare is the second Feiner Stern daughter. She is - as we laughingly refer to her - the little red dragon. She is super forward, sensitive, super willing, and very, very smart - learns most things very quickly, and is very eager to show you all her tricks. She is almost too smart, though - once she does a test a few times, she thinks she can do it all by herself (doesn't help that she is a chestnut mare! ). She is schooling 3rd Level but hasn't been shown since doing the hunters at age 3 and 4 (she is now coming 12). She did go to her first dressage show a month or so ago (schooling show) and did okay at 2nd Level Test 3 - esp. for such a "greenie"). I will have to hunt around and see if I can find a photo to upload - she's pretty cute.
                            Would love to see her photos.

                            I would say that I've been lucky with my F1s, in terms of consistency. One mare produced two fillies by Landkoenig that look like twins. She also produced two Budwiser babies - a mare that looks more like her dam, but is 16 h, and a gelding that looks more like Bud and is 16.2. I also have a 3/4 sib to those two who is very similar, but comes out somewhere inbetween and is about 16.1.

                            When you bred to Feiner Stern, did you see more of the mare or the stallion in the mix?
                            co-author of
                            Duel for the Crown: Affirmed, Alydar, and Racing's Greatest Rivalry
                            www.duelforthecrown.com

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by JWB View Post
                              Baladin D'Oc was not an F1 Anglo Arabian though. You had to go back 4 generations to get to the first full Arabian, and 7 generations before you find one in the mareline. I suspect by that point you'd have a much more cemented type. I love a good half arabian and if I had access to one like him, I'd be right there in line to use him. I'd be a lot more leery about an F1 personally... but call me in a few generations!

                              I absolutely think it would be a fantastic undertaking to see someone commit to breeding the Anglos to Anglos. They're such a nice type and it would be great to see them consistently reproduce themselves.
                              I believe allanglos is doing this. And there are probably others out there.
                              co-author of
                              Duel for the Crown: Affirmed, Alydar, and Racing's Greatest Rivalry
                              www.duelforthecrown.com

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                I can (watch Youtube), but I couldn't yesterday (I got to busy actually working). He's lovely! Nice suspension. I couldn't listen to the comments.
                                DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #76
                                  Originally posted by DownYonder View Post
                                  I have one - 3/4 Hanoverian, 1/4 Arabian. Her dam (my old mare) was by a Pik Bube II / Weingau son, and out of a purebred Arabian with mostly Crabbet bloodlines (although had a bit of Bask several generations back). I played around in dressage with the dam before breeding her - put her to Feiner Stern twice, and Werbellin one time before putting her back into work. My current mare is the second Feiner Stern daughter. She is - as we laughingly refer to her - the little red dragon. She is super forward, sensitive, super willing, and very, very smart - learns most things very quickly, and is very eager to show you all her tricks. She is almost too smart, though - once she does a test a few times, she thinks she can do it all by herself (doesn't help that she is a chestnut mare! ). She is schooling 3rd Level but hasn't been shown since doing the hunters at age 3 and 4 (she is now coming 12). She did go to her first dressage show a month or so ago (schooling show) and did okay at 2nd Level Test 3 - esp. for such a "greenie"). I will have to hunt around and see if I can find a photo to upload - she's pretty cute.
                                  Awesome an F2! I too would Love to see her. Can you share the Crabbet lines. I too have found that the Crabbet & Polish(*Bask) lines work very well when crossing to WBs. It may have something to do with the fact that they are mostly bred to be ridden. Could be something to that.
                                  http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #77
                                    Originally posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
                                    I can (watch Youtube), but I couldn't yesterday (I got to busy actually working). He's lovely! Nice suspension. I couldn't listen to the comments.
                                    Thank you. The comments are favorable even though this judge wasn't too keen on Arabians. Everyone at the inspection was very positive and had nice things to say.
                                    http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      I have bred several Warmblood Arab crosses with a good deal of success. The Arab mare was Crabbet bred and showed in both western pleasure and hunter with success for my children. We bred her to Hanoverian Scimitar and this colt was a super star at the Arabian Sporthorse Championships this year and last year! He is still very young but competes at 1st level. His name is LJS Sublime. The mare also produced a wonderful Art Deco black/white colt LJS Aesthetic and another by Hanoverian Gatsby all with many wins in-hand prior to under saddle wins. The mare has since passed away before I was able to get a keeper filly out of her for F2 breeding.

                                      Recently got in another Crabbet bred mare and have some Scimitar frozen semen so may at some point try and repeat that cross as best I can. The Arab mare needs to have a good hind end.
                                      www.lazyjsporthorses.com

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #79
                                        Thanks to everyone posting they are breeding or have bred or have one! I just wish you all would post bloodlines too! This will help everyone to learn what lines are being crossed and what has been successful. Crabbet, Polish, Spanish, Egyptian, etc. just say which family not the actual lines. Its like saying I have a F Line Oldenburg - which doesn't really tell us anything.

                                        Loving all the Crabbet!
                                        http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          http://www.hanoverian.org/ahs_media/...PT_article.pdf

                                          The grey mare free jumping in the top right picture was owned by a good friend of mine. After getting inspected, she was bred to Hanoverian stallion Gold Luck, and produced a lovely filly.
                                          The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!
                                          https://www.facebook.com/groups/equinewellness/

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