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KWPN Questions ??? .... Paganini... Inspekteur... Variant.... comments on offspring?

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  • KWPN Questions ??? .... Paganini... Inspekteur... Variant.... comments on offspring?

    Registration of foals for 2012 begins with the letter H??????

    I would also like a few constructive comments on experiences with offspring by Paganini, Inspekteur and Variant.

    Also comments on crosses of these bloodlines?

  • #2
    I have a Paganini filly that is 6 1/2 months old. She is liver chestnut with 4 whites, a star and faint stripe. She was rated first premium with KWPN with a score of 83 for conformation and 73 for movement. She was so well behaved at the inspection; braver than her mother! I am very impressed with her character. She is very people oriented and easy to handle. The mare is bred back to Paganini so I hope to have another Pagi baby in the spring.

    2012 was an "H" year for foal names.


    • Original Poster

      For those of you unfamiliar with Paganini. He is Cheryl Meisner's Grand Prix horse. He has recieved his Crown which I believe is a very high rating as a stallion through his performance achievements. He will be competing in Florida this winter.


      • Original Poster



        • #5
          Francois Lachance has a Paganini gelding named Capricci. His website is in French but you can use Google to translate it. There are a couple of pictures of Capricci. Paganini has not been used too much in North America so you may not get too many responses. There was a very limited amount of frozen semen and from my understanding, he has only been collected for fresh transported semen in the last 2 years.



          • Original Poster

            I found information from KWPN data base. Thank God for the Registries. I am starting to appreciate more why they exist now. ha ha

            So now I know this much.....

            Offspring 2004 (foals)
            Paganini showed well developed foals. The foals are sufficient to more than sufficient riding type.
            The head is sufficiently expressive. The poll has sufficient length. The neck is long with vertical position. Several foals are ewe-necked. The wither is more than sufficiently developed. The shoulder is sometimes a bit straight. The back is more than sufficient in length and sometimes hollow. The loins are shaped and connected well. The croup slopes and should generally be longer. The hamstring should be longer. The foreleg has good length but is frequently straight. A few foals are toed out. The stance of the hindleg varies. The base varies in development and is of sufficient quality.
            The walk is pure and is sufficient in scope. The hindleg should be brought further under the body and should bend more. The foals should have more freedom in the shoulder. The neck is vertical in the trot. The foals jump easily into the canter but should have more scope. The Paganini foals that were shown should have more suppleness in movement.

            In short: A uniform group of richly developed, sufficient to more than sufficient riding type foals. The hindleg should be brought further underneath the body. The foals should move with more scope and suppleness.

            Of the foals shown, nine were picked and three that were selected by the owner. One sick foal was evaluated in the stall and not in movement. One foal that was inspected at home deviated in a positive sense from the above report. The foals that were selected by the owner fit in with the above report.
            The quality of the mares varied.
            Shown: 12 (+1) foals out of 26 mares bred in 2003.

            and Pagi's sire is Havidoff... and this is his report...

            Offspring 1994 (foals)
            The foals formed a uniform group. They are large, very well developed, long lined foals in good riding type. The selected foals showed more refinement, otherwise there was not much difference between the picked and the selected foals. The head is long and sometimes a little coarse. The selected foals had a head that was less long and more expressive. The neck is long and has good shape and muscling. The foals have a lot of neck. The long wither is sufficiently developed. The shoulder is also long and has sufficient slope. The back has good length. The strong loin is nicely connected. The sloping croup has sufficient length and good muscling. The hamstring is long. The foreleg is correct. The hindleg has a small angle. The base is well developed and has sufficient quality.
            The walk is sufficient in scope. The foals have an impressive trot. It is strong, full of tact and scopey. The foals make a real good front and trot through their entire body.
            One foal that was inspected at home fit in with the above picture.
            The mares were good.
            No veterinary remarks.

            In short: uniform collection of large, very well developed, typey foals that can move well.
            Shown: 29 foals out of 161 breedings.

            Dam Sire..... Inspekteur...

            Offspring 1994 (foals)
            The development of the foals shown varied from barely sufficient to more than sufficient. On the whole, the foals are refined, riding types and long lined. In the picked group, however, there were several foals that were short coupled. The head is pretty and expressive. The well-muscled neck has good length and shape. Once in a while it is a little deep. The muscling of the wither, which has good length, is only so-so. The shoulder is long but could have more slope. The back is well muscled, the loins are well connected. The strongly muscled croup is muscled sufficiently. The hamstring could be longer, the gaskin is well muscled. In several cases the foreleg is a little straight. The hind leg is correct. The development of the base varies from moderate to sufficient. The well-finished bone structure has quality.
            The walk is good. The trot is big and strong. The foals rise well in the front, have good use of the hind leg, but could relax a little more through the top line. The stallion needs substantial mares that are long-lined.
            The quality of the mares was average.
            No veterinary findings.

            In short: refined foals, a little underdeveloped and sometimes short coupled, with movement that is big and powerful.
            Shown: 17 foals out of 43 breedings

            and Dam's Dam sire .... Variant

            Offspring 1984 (foals)
            The collection of foals that was shown was generally young, but even so, there should be more development. The type appears to be short-coupled and shallow, but with sufficient hardness in the legs. Especially the selected foals show more quality and refinement.
            The head was a little long in the first group, that of the selected foals was better and also more expressive. In several cases there was a ewe-neck and the topline of the neck was poorly muscled. The wither is generally well developed, even though in the first group it was a little short. The placement of the shoulder is always good, but it could have been longer. The back was pretty much always long and moderate in strength. The loins are good and have sufficient muscling. The croup always has good shape but should be longer. The hamstring should also be longer. The knee of the foreleg is sufficiently developed. The foreleg is often back at the knee. There are also several cases where the foreleg was tied in below the knee. The hock should be more finished.
            The walk has sufficient scope and push from behind. The foals trot easily. The hindleg should come underneath better in the group of picked foals. The selected foals had several that came underneath exceptionally well.
            Shown: 14 foals out of 55 breedings.

            Additional offspring information 1987 (September)
            The stallion committee made an extraordinary decision in regards to the stallion Variant. His three-year old offspring were sufficient in number to make a criticism. The committee was uncertain about the information pertaining to the three-year old offspring. Therefore they decided go postpone a definitive decision in regards to maintaining the approval of this stallion until the next selection phase, when the eldest offspring turn seven. Next year his then three-year old offspring will again be evaluated.

            That is the offspring evaluation...perhaps somewhat dated but it gives related information.


            • Original Poster

              Additional Stallion Data .... Licensing Scores....Impressions... SportIndex report


              Walk 9
              Trot 9
              Canter 9
              Riding test 9
              Free jumping 7
              Show jumping 7
              Cross country test 8.5
              In harness 7.5
              Character 8
              Stable behaviour 9
              Training report 9
              Total points 92.00
              Maximal points 110
              Placement 2e van 25 (14)
              Test year 1982
              Test place Ermelo

              Performance Ermelo 1982
              Phlegmatic, friendly stallion with good humor. Obedient, honest and steady. He was green at the start of the test. He held back during the first half of the test but became happier and more willing to work once the daily work outside. He is a show horse with a lot of suppleness. He should be more aggressive.
              He has a big, elastic, regular walk. The trot is carried well with a lot of scope and regularity. He has a nice, light, carrying canter with a lot of scope and regularity. He does not use his back enough while jumping under saddle and he lacks power. In free jumping he shows sufficient respect for the jump. He has a moderate bascule. He has a good cross-country gallop but he is not totally convincing over the cross-country jumps. He has good carriage in front of the sled and has a great walk. His ears are lively. He is more than sufficiently willing to work and the work is easy for him.
              Riding test: good performance with nice, big, regular movement
              Jumping under saddle: good maneuverability, he canters through well, sometimes does not show sufficient respect for the jumps.
              Free jumping: moderate use of the back, makes a good effort, is handy.
              Pulling test: he pulls the empty sled well, when weight is added he becomes irregular.
              Cross-country: he has an excellent gallop.
              He has very much talent for dressage, much talent for cross-country and sufficient talent for jumping. He was in good condition upon arrival and there was not much change during the test. He received less pellets and more oats than normal.
              He was calm in his stall.
              No veterinary remarks

              Sport index
              Year of calculation 2008
              Number of perfomance test results in calculation 13
              Number of sport results (show jumping) in calculation 21
              Reliability breeding value show jumping 77
              breeding value: show jumping 54
              Number of sport results (dressage) in calculation 199
              Reliability breeding value dressage 92
              Breeding value: dressage 117


              Walk 8.5
              Trot 9
              Canter 8
              Riding test 8.5
              Free jumping 4.5
              Show jumping 5
              Character 9
              Stable behaviour 9
              Training report 8
              Total points 69.50
              Maximal points 90
              Placement 6e van 29 (17)
              Test year 1993
              Test place Ermelo

              Performance 1993 (tied for 6th)
              Inspekteur is an honest, reliable and happy stallion. He is very willing to work and works well. The walk is active but a little tight in the foreleg. The stallion uses the hind leg well in the trot and has a great deal of tact. The canter is powerful and carried, but could be bigger. The stallion closes well in dressage, and maintains more than sufficient tact and balance. He has a great deal of talent for dressage and gives his rider a good feeling. While jumping he does not have much of a take-off, has moderate technique of the legs and little bascule.
              He has little talent for jumping and gives his rider a moderate feeling. His stall behavior is normal.

              Sport index
              Year of calculation 2008
              Number of perfomance test results in calculation 10
              Number of sport results (show jumping) in calculation 7
              Reliability breeding value show jumping 77
              breeding value: show jumping 51
              Number of sport results (dressage) in calculation 145
              Reliability breeding value dressage 88
              Breeding value: dressage 125


              Walk 8
              Trot 9
              Canter 9
              Riding test 9
              Free jumping 5.5
              Show jumping 5
              Cross country test 6.5
              Character 9
              Stable behaviour 9
              Training report 8
              Total points 78.00
              Maximal points 100
              Placement 7e van 38 (27)
              Test year 1992
              Test place Ermelo

              Honest, reliable but impertinent. The basic gaits have scope, tact, power and they are characterized by a remarkably good use of the foreleg. He carries himself extremely well. He gives a good feeling to his rider in dressage. He does not use his back much in jumping and has moderate leg technique. He gives a moderate feeling to his riding in jumping. He does cross-country more than sufficiently. He is more than willing to work. He has a sensitive mouth and is therefore ridden with a synthetic bit. He works real well and it is easy for him. He has very much talent for dressage and moderate talent for jumping. Stall and handling behavior is normal.

              Sport index
              Year of calculation 2008
              Number of perfomance test results in calculation 14
              Number of sport results (show jumping) in calculation 23
              Reliability breeding value show jumping 84
              breeding value: show jumping 67
              Number of sport results (dressage) in calculation 218
              Reliability breeding value dressage 91
              Breeding value: dressage 149


              Walk 7
              Trot 6
              Canter 7.5
              Dressage ability 7.5
              Subtotal dressage 28.0
              Ranking dressage 7e
              Take off 6.5
              Technique 5.5
              Scope 6
              Jumping ability 5.5
              Subtotal jumping 23.5
              Ranking jumping 8e
              Total points 51.50
              Placement 8e van 13 (9)
              Test year 2003
              Test place Ermelo

              Ermelo 2003 (13-03 t/m 02-04)
              Paganini is reliable stallion that is willing to work.
              The walk is pure and powerful but the foreleg should be moved out more and should have more suppleness. The trot is powerful with more than sufficient use of the hindleg. The stallion carries himself more than sufficiently but should be lighter on his feet. He should have more suppleness in all three gaits. The canter has sufficient scope and he closes well. The impulsion is good. Paganini has talent for the more difficult work. He finds the work normal. The stallion has more than sufficient talent for dressage and gives his rider a more than sufficient feeling.
              Paganini jumps with sufficient take-off. The stallion has moderate bascule and holds himself behind. He has limited scope and he lands heavily. Paganini has moderate talent for jumping and gives his rider a moderate feeling.
              The stallion's behavior in his stall and while being handled is normal.
              No veterinary remarks.

              Sport index
              Year of calculation 2008
              Number of perfomance test results in calculation 10
              Number of sport results (show jumping) in calculation 7
              Reliability breeding value show jumping 77
              breeding value: show jumping 51
              Number of sport results (dressage) in calculation 145
              Reliability breeding value dressage 88
              Breeding value: dressage 125


              • Original Poster

                ....so with all that said.... I have a filly. Her name is Hypnotic. She is the result of combining these bloodlines.

                Out of curiosity would she be considered foundation bred? I kind of like the fact that she represents an outcross on many of the more fashionable KWPN stars of the moment. It leaves so many more options for later when she "comes of age".

                My filly is very young. She was a late filly. born September 8th. She will remain on the farm with her dam until March when Cheryl returns from Florida.
                I am hoping Martha Haley will be hosting an inspection in 2013. If so, I will present her at that time.

                The plan is that Theresa Steele and I will be co-owing the filly which will enable us to have more possibilities for the future.


                • Original Poster

                  The current Gold Medalist from the London Olympics was out of a Variant mare, by Hilltop Farm's Ferro son, Negro.


                  • #10
                    Congratulations on your new baby! Thanks for posting the stallion reports.