• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Is there a shortage of TB Stallions approved by Warmblood Registries in North America

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Is there a shortage of TB Stallions approved by Warmblood Registries in North America

    Just out of curiosity. I am wondering what thoroughbred stallions are at this time approved by warmblood registries in North America.

    Coconut Grove was certainly highly regarded but unfortunately is no more. Is there no frozen available on this stallion?

    Of all the thoroughbreds bred in North America I find it hard to believe that this is true.

    Eventers must be crying for blood. It is certainly easier to fit up the blood horses for that level of competition.

    Not a debate, just curious.
    http://regcorkumlive.blogspot.com/

  • #2
    I don't think the "lack " of approved TB stallions is a problem in this country. Why? Because we have a large TB mare base. If eventers need blood, we have that in the available mare base.
    That being said, I do believe there are several approved stallions in N. America. What about A Fine Romance, and Sea Accounts? I'm sure there are others, but this is certainly not my area of expertise!
    Already excited about our 2016 foals! Expecting babies by Indoctro, Diamant de Semilly, Zirocco Blue and Calido!
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Hocus Focus View Post
      Just out of curiosity. I am wondering what thoroughbred stallions are at this time approved by warmblood registries in North America.

      Coconut Grove was certainly highly regarded but unfortunately is no more. Is there no frozen available on this stallion?

      Of all the thoroughbreds bred in North America I find it hard to believe that this is true.

      Eventers must be crying for blood. It is certainly easier to fit up the blood horses for that level of competition.

      Not a debate, just curious.
      There are literally thousands of lovely TB stallions in this country! Very few owners of TB stallions care about WB registries. Sadly the only influx of TB blood going into the US Warmbloods is through TB mares.

      Now, as to whether or not Eventers are crying, some how I doubt it! Both Eventers and Hunter people concentrate more on performance than they do on Registries or registration papers. Many do not even see the benefit of "registries," but they do see the cost.

      There are so many superb TB stallions in the US that if anyone wants to use them, they can just inquire. Another benefit of a TB stallion is that many do not require the stud fee be paid prior to the time that the foal stands and nurses.
      http://www.herselffarm.com
      Proud of my Hunter Breeding Princesses
      "Grief is the price we all pay for love," Gretchen Jackson (1/29/07) In Memory of Barbaro

      Comment


      • #4
        It's certainly hard to find them. There are a few but not nearly the number that you'd expect/want if you're planning on crossing them onto Warmblood mares and registering the offspring.

        There are some that would be fantastic, but if they've also had success breeding race TBs they're 1)not approved anywhere 2)expensive 3)live cover only.

        Also we seem oblivious to the quality that is often right under our noses. Seems like there have been quite a few that have been underused in the US and then get attention when they go to Europe and get approved over there.

        I wish more stallion owners would take the time to present their TB stallions for approval, and/or for the existence of a TB/half TB sport horse registry (remember what the PHR was supposed to be).

        I can think of some that may be really nice in this area, and even though their stud fee is super cheap, they're not approved anywhere so the foals can't be registered. Also the stallions have had little or no performance career and have covered a ton of very average mares. At the end of the day, a stud fee is a drop in the bucket when producing a foal - so I'd really have a hard time justifying using them because the foals just wouldn't be marketable from a sales perspective.

        As for eventers crying for blood, there are just not that many people doing it. The ones that are serious about it won't be too worried about using the high blooded imported semen (Mighty Magic, Alligator Fontaine, Jaguar Mail....) or are using a TB mare base to begin with. Also lots are just repurposed race horses or horses bred for other disciplines.

        Personally, I'd LOVE to see more - but I don't know that we have the breeding base to make the stallion owners care to jump through registry hoops.
        The rebel in the grey shirt

        Comment


        • #5
          The main reason is that we still have a large TB mare base here AND many of the people breeding WB mares that need some refinement or "blood" will do so through "refining" stallions that are just more modern type or those that have TB or Trakehner blood closer up in the pedigree. This also avoids an FI cross which some breeders, if not specifically breeding for that or are not looking into breeding long term, are not prepared to risk. F1 crosses are very good for many things but the most reliability actually comes when the TB is in the 2 or 3rd generation. This avoids the situation of having a mare bred to a considerable different "type" therefore increasing chance of the resulting offspring being more in line with what the breeder would like to produce. It's a slow process.

          Edited to add: for producing eventers, I agree, the stallion base is limited here. I suspect that is why most bring in the TB blood via the mare or use a Trakehner mare with suitable bloodlines...
          Westbrook Farm
          Facebook

          Comment


          • #6
            Or you can look at a half-blood stallion like Sandro's Star, who just finished 4th of 21 stallions at the 70 day SPT at Silver Creek. He earned 10's for cross-country gallop and cross-country jumping - and I believe he was the only stallion to earn 10's in those categories. He is by Sagnol (Sandro Hit / Landadel) and out of a TB mare, so he has a pretty high percentage of "blood".

            Comment


            • #7
              For RPSI, if a TB has won $100,000 on the track, he doesn't even need to be seen, let alone Approved. We saw an example recently. WB mare bred to a TB stallion, foal received the full brand and will be a papered "Warmblood". I'm not sure what winning $100,000 on the race track has to do with "good, riding horse type", but that's just me. IMO if you want a bit more "blood" you are far better off using a good Trakehner.
              Patty
              www.rivervalefarm.com
              Follow us on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/River...ref=ts&fref=ts

              Comment


              • #8
                My Guaranteed Gold (TB) stallion is CSHA (Canadian Sport Horse Association) approved. CSHA is a member of the WBFSH

                Mare Owners with ATA and SWANA mares have bred their mares to him and received Appendix papers on those foals. The fillies are then able to "move up" within the respective registries and once they hit 3 years of age or older, and are bred to full ATA or SWANA stallions, those foals would get full papers.

                RPSI mares bred to him also get their foals inspected, graded, registered and branded (half brand - and I havent come across anyone yet who feels slighted that their foal only got a half and not full brand). They still call it a WB with RPSI registration.

                We've had some AHS mares bred to him and not sure what the registration options are for those foals

                BWP mares have also had their foals inspected, graded and registered

                The only registries I am not sure how they would view the foals are Old NA and GOV - does anyone know?

                His European full TB offspring can also be inspected and graded which is what is happening with his coming 3 year old son in Germany

                From my perspective, that covers about 85-90% (or more!) of the mares that are looking to breed to him. Add in the AQHA, APHA, ApHc, Draft, Morgan, TB, Arabian, CSHA, etc mares and its probably closer to 90-95%

                So - I weigh the pros and cons of putting him through a 70D test to pick up - maybe - 5-10% more mares and I dont feel the end justifies the means in my case

                Thats why in my case Im happy with his current status and have "0" interest in changing anything and perhaps other TB stallion owners feel pretty much the same way as I do ...
                www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                www.truecoloursproducts.com

                True Colours Farm on Facebook

                Comment


                • #9
                  I know that Kathy's boy Goldmaker is now approved for breeding with RPSI book I so his foals are eligable for full brand.
                  http://www.avalon-equine.com/goldmaker.html
                  Worth A Shot Farm
                  Finding the horse of your dreams, is always Worth A Shot!
                  Visit our Website
                  Join us on Facebook
                  Watch us on Youtube

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    I am learning a lot here and about other questions as well. Thanks.
                    http://regcorkumlive.blogspot.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The ATA currently has 2 Tb stallions approved for breeding:
                      Sea Accounts http://americantrakehner.com/Stallions/SeaAccounts.asp
                      and Sea Elephant http://americantrakehner.com/Stallions/SeaElephant.asp
                      Dr. Baird's law:
                      In a voluntary organization, the amount of criticism one receives is directly proportional to the amount of work done and it emanates from those who do the very least.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just curious, how many breeder's would actually use a TB stallion if he was approved? It doesn't seem like (at least from what I've read on COTH) that many breeder's would be interested in TB stallions.

                        We have what I consider a lovely TB stallion, and I would love to present him to some of the warmblood registries, even though we are using him presently for race babies. He has what I consider very nice dressage type movement, at least until he gallops, then it's all race horse. But I wonder if it is worth the money? He'd have to be presented, then either do the 70 day test (which I wouldn't do) or would have to go the route of performance, which is also a lot of money for shows. How likely would it be that he would get more than just one or two mares a year?

                        Sheila

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Chestnut Run, perhaps you should talk to Gail, who owns A Fine Romance? I believe his book fills very quickly.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            We would love to present our guy to some warmblood registries, the only issue is finances. We have no doubt he would be accepted in to many of the warmblood books, but getting the testing done is not cheap.
                            Fox Haven Farm, Inc.
                            Home of 2002 JC Registered stallion Artrageous

                            Artrageous has his own Facebook page!

                            Comment


                            • #16
                              I bet many Eventer wouldn't care.

                              Comment


                              • #17
                                A Fine Romance - Highly sought after/respected
                                Coconut Grove - Very successful as a sire.
                                Sea Accounts - I've just started hearing about him (opposite coast) but he's on my watch list.

                                I'd also consider using one that had done the job (at FEI levels) whether or not he was actually approved anywhere....

                                But at the end of the day, a foal also needs to be marketable. A warmblood registry is a great place to start.

                                Edited to add - Oooh! Thanks for the info about RPSI! I lust after this old man. Wonder if they could be convinced to ship semen though....
                                Corporate Report
                                Last edited by JWB; Nov. 15, 2012, 07:02 PM.
                                The rebel in the grey shirt

                                Comment


                                • #18
                                  Originally posted by Chestnut Run View Post
                                  Just curious, how many breeder's would actually use a TB stallion if he was approved? It doesn't seem like (at least from what I've read on COTH) that many breeder's would be interested in TB stallions.
                                  TB stallions such as A Fine Romance get used for basically four reasons: 1) his pedigree; 2) he himself was a big winner at a very high level at very big rated shows; 3) his kids are also winning at very high levels in various disciplines and 4) his conformation for sport is outstanding.

                                  A Fine Romance is PROVEN, not just APPROVED. That's the difference. I breed Holsteiners but would use him in a heartbeat if I had a mare I thought would cross on him.
                                  Surgeon General warns: "drinking every time Trump lies during the debate could result in acute alcohol poisoning."

                                  Comment


                                  • #19
                                    Originally posted by Go Fish View Post
                                    A Fine Romance is PROVEN, not just APPROVED. That's the difference. I breed Holsteiners but would use him in a heartbeat if I had a mare I thought would cross on him.
                                    And that's the bottom line of what I meant in my post. Stallions similar to mine, since he is only 5 and barely started in his second career, and his first foals only coming in 2013, it's really not worth trying to get him approved at this point. Even if he was approved, he wouldn't get much if any interest. Maybe after he's competing, but right now it makes no financial sense.

                                    And I think that's why, OP, there aren't many TB stallions presented to warmblood registries. It's not financially feasible until they are competing at a fairly high level, which it takes a ton of money to get them there. So horses like my guy with his excellent racing bloodlines, are used to breed race horses. It makes their owners money without having to pour a ton out to get results.

                                    Nothing wrong with it either way, just the way it is. I love all horses, but particularly TBs. I would love to breed a few WBs, but with the TBs we can race them first and then put them in other sports careers.

                                    Sheila

                                    Comment


                                    • #20
                                      Baatesh passed the 70-day test and I believe is now approved RPSI.

                                      Ivory Coast is recorded with RPSI (Studbook II). I bought a filly by him this year and I believe she has a full brand.

                                      Is Innkeeper still around?
                                      Sheila Armstrong, Stone Creek Sport Horses, Dallas, TX
                                      Proud half owner of the KWPN Stallion TORONTO
                                      https://www.facebook.com/TorontoStallion/
                                      http://www.avalon-equine.com/toronto.html

                                      Comment

                                      Working...
                                      X