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Is there a shortage of TB Stallions approved by Warmblood Registries in North America

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  • #41
    Originally posted by elizabeth Callahan View Post
    I agree completely with JWB. I do breed Eventers and would not breed either an unapproved mare or to an unapproved stallion, no matter how nice. If they are that nice, then get approvals on them.
    Unfortunately, it is not as simple as that. For mares, yes. For stallions, you must have the $$$ to spend.
    Fox Haven Farm, Inc.
    Home of 2002 JC Registered stallion Artrageous

    Artrageous has his own Facebook page!

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    • #42
      Originally posted by Hocus Focus View Post
      I am learning. ha ha

      Based on information gathered here, I think if I were stallion shopping, I would be most curious about the tb stallion "Rather Well" paticularly if I were looking specifically at eventing. He has an impressive competition record through Advanced, and remaining sound through the rigors of eventing is an approval process in itself. How are his offspring doing?
      There are some Rather Well babies coming up the ranks really successfully. His daughter, Rather Breezy, was high point Intermediate horse in Ontario last year with her junior rider! She is out of a Clyde/TB mare. Having seen Rather Well in person, he is probably 16 hands on his tip toes and quite refined, so he would probably cross well with a mare with substance (a la Rather Breezy). He himself has been ridden by juniors since going Advanced and has a phenomenal temperament which he seems to be passing on to his offspring.

      Originally posted by skydy View Post
      I'm hardly an expert, but it seems to me that not many competitors in the U.S. care much about the stallion being "approved". Eventers seem to care about performance and the prepotency of the stallion.
      Perhaps it would matter if you are breeding eventers to sell in the U.K. or Europe, but is that really what U.S. breeders are trying to do?

      I think we can make our own very well, if we put our minds to it, without the approval process. Of course some folks will pay more for the approved.
      Since so many event horses are TBs and mutts, event riders, for the most part, don't really care about the breeding of their horses if they're PROVEN. If one were breeding or buying an event foal or young prospect, approvals/bloodlines/registrations become important because this is the best indication of the quality of the young horse and its future success. Once it has proven itself in sport, though, particularly at the higher levels, this becomes less relevant.

      I bought a young mare as a 4 year old by a son of Rio Grande (who is out of a TB mare, an Ontario stallion named Riot), out of a TB mare off the track. As an unregistered 3/4 TB with a racing-bred dam, she would be of little interest to breeders. However, I produced this mare to Intermediate (and then sold her to a young rider whose family has a small breeding program), at which point she was suddenly a "warmblood" mare proven in sport whom the current owners are excited to breed down the road.

      I think, though, that unless one is willing to put years of training and thousands of dollars into a horse to find out whether it *might* make it as an eventer down the line, breeders are smart to breed only mares and stallions approved with legitimate sport-oriented registries to validate the quality of their young prospects early on.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by foxhavenfarm View Post
        Unfortunately, it is not as simple as that. For mares, yes. For stallions, you must have the $$$ to spend.
        So true! It's probably very hard for TB stallion owners to justify the expense for a handful of breedings. Coconut Grove will be missed, but IIRC, his approvals came after a successful jumper career and did not involve the testing process.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by *Tradewind* View Post
          I think, though, that unless one is willing to put years of training and thousands of dollars into a horse to find out whether it *might* make it as an eventer down the line, breeders are smart to breed only mares and stallions approved with legitimate sport-oriented registries to validate the quality of their young prospects early on.
          Great idea, except "Approval" is no more of a guarantee than a proven program is. We've spent years and thousands of dollars being encouraged to breed what the Germans want. Well, guess what? The horses are not being sold to the Germans, they are being sold to the Americans. Mostly adult amateur ladies and they, for the most part, don't want a 17 + hand, 1400 pound, over reactive, needs an hour of lunging kind of horse. They want medium size, pretty, talented and UNCOMPLICATED horse.

          As far as eventers go, I don't think the approval process is going to worth as much as buying from successful bloodlines or buying the horse in front of you, that looks capable of doing the job. Many (most?) Eventers still tend to be "accidental" rather that specifically bred for.
          Patty
          www.rivervalefarm.com
          Follow us on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/River...ref=ts&fref=ts

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          • #45
            Originally posted by NoDQhere View Post
            Great idea, except "Approval" is no more of a guarantee than a proven program is. We've spent years and thousands of dollars being encouraged to breed what the Germans want. Well, guess what? The horses are not being sold to the Germans, they are being sold to the Americans. Mostly adult amateur ladies and they, for the most part, don't want a 17 + hand, 1400 pound, over reactive, needs an hour of lunging kind of horse. They want medium size, pretty, talented and UNCOMPLICATED horse.

            As far as eventers go, I don't think the approval process is going to worth as much as buying from successful bloodlines or buying the horse in front of you, that looks capable of doing the job. Many (most?) Eventers still tend to be "accidental" rather that specifically bred for.
            That is exactly the point I was trying to make, NoDQ: that event riders want proven performance, as one can't guarantee a horse will successfully event until he goes out and proves himself to be an eventer. This seems to be more true for eventing than for the other disciplines. However, because there is zero guarantee that a foal will be a successful eventer because of how much rideability and attitude play into an event horse's success, it makes sense for a breeder to start with quality (event-type) mares and breed them to quality stallions to have a higher likelihood of producing quality offspring. Many people's idea of validation of quality is gaining approval with a legitimate registry. Whether or not they ultimately become good event horses will only be discovered with time and training, but the chances of breeding a high level performance horse can be maximized with good breeding decisions.

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            • #46
              If I'm specifically breeding for eventing, my first choice is a stallion who has proven himself successful as a SIRE of event horses. Unfortunately, by the time we know which ones are going to do that, they may be getting quite old.... think along the lines of Aberjack, Jumbo, Brandenburgs Windstar, Master Imp, Comet Shine, Windfall....

              My second choice would be a stallion that is doing it himself - perhaps yet unproven as a sire, but out eventing at the upper levels. There are a few of these available to us here and more in Europe via frozen semen. If you don't have the money to license your stallion, get him out and show him at upper levels so we can see what he can do! - Think Sea Lion, Mighty Magic, Cicera's Icewater (at least Prelim) and Sea Accounts (also to Prelim)

              Third choice would be an approved marketable stallion - and there are lots of these that ALSO fit into one of the two categories above - Riverman or Windfall if that's your taste, one of the approved TBs, or a host of others that "could" do the job if that's the direction that they'd been steered in.

              I'm not saying that a great horse won't come out of someone's back yard. It might - but it's going to be really hard to sell as a prospect. The internet is FULL of TBs and TB crosses for under $1500. It's going to cost more than that to feed a brood mare for a year.
              The rebel in the grey shirt

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