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FN stallion rankings???

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  • FN stallion rankings???

    Can someone tell me where I can see them posted for 2012. I had a site but lost it and have no luck googling..

  • #2
    I would say they are not yet out regarding 2012 as the recording years ends at 30.09.
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    2017: March: Filly by Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - SPS Prince Thatch
    May: Finnigan - Sandro Hit - SPS Rouletto


    • Original Poster


      OK the latest FN rankings?


      • #4
        Here's the link for the 2011 data


        • #5
          Can anyone please share the 2012 link(s)? Top 50 and the Top 1%? TIA!
          Watermark Farm
          Watermark Farm Facebook Fan Page
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          • #6

            divided in three groups - scroll further down for the 90+ group



            • #7
              Thank you fannie mae!!
              Watermark Farm
              Watermark Farm Facebook Fan Page
              You Tube Channel


              • #8
                Do they have the same rankings for Jumping and Eventing? I looked on the website; but since I have no German, I had no idea how to find them if they exist.
                "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                Thread killer Extraordinaire


                • #9
                  Merry Christmas. If I am seeing this correctly, Wild Dance with 145 is one of the highest if not the highest ranked stallion standing in the US. Quite a feat with so few offspring.
                  www.rainbowequus.com Home of stallions that actually produced champion hunter, jumper and dressage offspring and now also champion eventers


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                    Do they have the same rankings for Jumping and Eventing? I looked on the website; but since I have no German, I had no idea how to find them if they exist.
                    In the middle of the page in the box Anlagen you find the rankings
                    Dressur Dressage

                    Springen - jumping

                    Comments regarding the database :

                    Turniersport (TSP) = shows, alle Starts seit 01.01.1995 (TORIS Daten) = all starts since 01.01.1995 (Toris Daten = show software data)

                    Aufbauprüfungen (ABP) = younghorseclasses, alle Starts seit 01.01.1995 (TORIS Daten)
                    Zuchtstutenprüfungen (ZSP) mare performance tests from , ab 01.01.1986
                    Hengstleistungsprüfungen (HLP) stallion performance tests , ab 01.01.1986

                    Ausgewiesen sind alle Hengste, die folgende Kriterien erfüllen = listed are all stallions that fulfill the following criteria:
                    - Sicherheit Gesamt ZW Dressur mind. 70% und insgesamt mindestens 5 Nachkommen oder
                    - Sicherheit Gesamt ZW Springen mind. 70% und insgesamt mindestens 5 Nachkommen

                    = Security of breeding value dressage resp. jumping min. 70% and overall at least 5 offspring

                    Es werden dann alle Teil- und Einzelzuchtwerte ausgewiesen.
                    All partly and single breeding values are listed

                    Abkürzungen/ abbreviations
                    HLP - Hengstleistungsprüfung = Stallionperformancetest
                    ZSP/VA - Zuchtstutenprüfung/Veranlagungsprüfung = Mareperformance test or suitability test
                    ABP - Aufbauprüfung = Young horse class
                    TSP - Turniersportprüfung = regular show class
                    ZW Zuchtwert - breeding index
                    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
                    2017: March: Filly by Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - SPS Prince Thatch
                    May: Finnigan - Sandro Hit - SPS Rouletto


                    • #11
                      Wow, Edgar! The US is lucky to have him.
                      Fleur de Lis Hanoverians


                      • #12
                        It's a pretty cool resource to have for breeding purposes/stallion selection - even though it's not only about playing the numbers...

                        On the Breeding Value with a 70-79% Security these stallions are available by frozen semen. (apologies for any omissions or errors)
                        Welt Hit IV (162), Rosandro (158), Furst Nymphenberg (155), Sarkozy (155), Balletmeister (151), Briar (149), Rosentanz (149), Freestyle (147), Don Ricoss (143), Sinatra Song (138), Christ (137) - of those I think Freestyle is the only fresh option.
                        Diamonit I, Farewell III and Donnerbube III are on this list but I'm not sure if they're available for import/standing at stud.

                        80-89% Security Group
                        Jazz (170), Breitling (164), Damsey (160), Bennetton Dream (156), Hampton (156), Samba Hit II (152), Danone II (151), Rhodes Scholar (deceased) (151), Krack C (151), Furst Romancier (150), Locksley I (149), Silberschmied (148), Blu Hors Romanov (148), Soliman du Hus (148), First Dance (147), Wild Dance (145), and Contucci (142). There are also some Trakenhers that I'm not sure about availability - Le Rouge (147), Kaiser Karl (147) and Imperio (142). Locksley, Wild Dance and Contucci are available fresh.

                        In the 90-99% Security group
                        Don Schufro (170), Londontime (169), Dancing Dynamite (162), Sir Donnerhall I (160), Lord Loxley I (157), Dancier (155), Sansico (155), Belissimo M (153), Scolari (153), Don Primero (152), Diamond Hit (151), Hofrat (150), San Remo (149), Don Romantic (149), Florencio (149), Quaterback (149), Wolkentanz I (148), Dimaggio (147), Donnerball (147), Furst Piccolo (147), Weltmeyer (146), His Highness (145), Hotline (144), Royal Blend (144), Hohenstein (143), Desperados (143), Don Frederico (143), Dressage Royal (143), Romancero H (142), Samba Hit I (142) and Fidertanz (142).

                        Romancero H is the only one that I know of as being available via fresh semen in the US.
                        Watermark Farm
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                        • #13
                          Thank you, Alexandra.
                          "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                          Thread killer Extraordinaire


                          • #14
                            what do the percentages mean? what is a 90-99% stallion?


                            • #15
                              Tht is the statistical security of the breeding index.
                              I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
                              2017: March: Filly by Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - SPS Prince Thatch
                              May: Finnigan - Sandro Hit - SPS Rouletto


                              • #16
                                so what does that mean? I am not clear ...


                                • #17
                                  The higher the percentage the more likely the ranking is accurate. The more competition info the higher the percentage.
                                  www.rainbowequus.com Home of stallions that actually produced champion hunter, jumper and dressage offspring and now also champion eventers


                                  • #18
                                    ok, thanks! i get it now.....


                                    • #19
                                      in any case, statistics are statistics and only as valuable as we understand to read them.
                                      don't get mislead (or euphoric) by individual rankings in the first place, most important so when stallions are of younger age with not enough elder progeny under saddle.
                                      ZWS is made up by various factors. selfperformance and progeny performance make a difference. the lesser the basis of progeny performance due to age the higher the relative value of selfperformance in thisstatistic. this is where accuracy percentage comes to play.
                                      stallions of low progeny numbers whose progeny is mainly in professional hands show record results - but are meaningless if you know how to read them (knowledge of data base/individual horses).
                                      most prominent example couple of years ago was breitling.
                                      few horses under saddle, all of them by the wittig family (who are exceptional trainers). breitling was a shooting star in the ZWS with a handful of progeny only but all of them very succesful.
                                      what does such ZWS top ranking tell you about the breeding value of the stallion?
                                      but if you know the respective progeny under saddle it tells you all about the trainers.

                                      you need to really question the ZWS year by year regarding a few factors:

                                      1. if there is a strong self performance value of the stallion, who is the rider?
                                      if the stallion is shown by super professional this part of the formula is meaningless. however, it is of strong influence to the ZWS in all.
                                      if the stallion is ridden by a less influential rider or bearly shown in sport at all but still pops up among the top ranking in a lesser top group (70-80 or 80-90) but of valuable accuracy (90%+) this is of higher value than i.e. damon hill and his ranking given his intl sport value counts big times.
                                      KNOW their progeny in person!

                                      2. overvaluation of young horse performance classes.
                                      contrary positioon to the breitling example.
                                      many "hot" young stallions have bred more than 200/300 mares in their first few years. statistically, the necessary "density" of underlying progeny is given (numberwise). however, nature of the statistic has it that with younger stallions younger progeny's success is shown in young horse dressage classes.
                                      how are these made up?
                                      spectacularity counts big times as it does impress judges but says nothing about relyable dressage horse abilities when it comes to collective work.
                                      spectacular trotters in the first place.
                                      there are some younger stallions in top positions whose breeding value i stronlgy question. their progeny comes along impressive but in many cases doesn't make it beyond L/M level in wider depth.
                                      these stallions will loose their high rankings in due course as with age the relative proportion of young horse class vs "real" dressage success (M, S and beyond) becomes more meaningful and if they don't deliver (produce) accordingly, usually this dilutes the breeding value to a more realistic ranking.
                                      KNOW their individual progeny!

                                      3. continouity/sustainability counts.
                                      check various ZWS from the last years and check the tendency of stallions remaining in their group.
                                      breitling i.e.
                                      with slightly more progeny and not all ridden by the wittigs anymore all of the sudden his top position suffers.
                                      there is reason for that.
                                      sandro hit.
                                      doesn't show up anymore in leading positions.
                                      on the other hand:
                                      don schufro. in the lead for more than 10 years now.
                                      and he didn't even breed that much in germany given his high fees and lower availability (semen available only 3x a week).
                                      yet, he still shows up in that position for many years and truly overcame his sire donnerhall with respect to sustainability.

                                      if you don't have the chance to watch any given's stallion's progeny under saddle, if you don't know the quality of their rider, if you are unaware of how little or much they bred at all always look at former ZWS and compare indvidual stallion position to how they did in the past - to their good or their bad.

                                      and even than the statistic only gives you a hint. but it does not necessarily hint you to a realistic breeding value.