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Indoctro and Ahorn - What do they bring to the table?

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  • Indoctro and Ahorn - What do they bring to the table?

    I bred one of my young AFR daughters (full TB) to a young stallion, VDL Windsor, who is by Indoctro and out of an Ahorn mare.
    He has only very young offspring at this point, so I am wondering if people have any imput on what characteristics his sire and damsire are known for producing?
    I've seen video of both of them of course, and know that they can jump, but I am wondering about other aspects as well.

    Thanks!
    A Fine Romance. April 1991 - June 2016. Loved forever.

  • #2
    Bump!
    .
    Last edited by Sakura Hill Farm; Sep. 24, 2012, 03:37 PM.
    Sakura Hill Farm
    Now on Facebook

    Young and developing horses for A-circuit jumper and hunter rings.

    Comment


    • #3
      Another bump.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Anyone here have any experience with either of these stallions or their offspring?
        A Fine Romance. April 1991 - June 2016. Loved forever.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'll bite...

          But please understand that, up to now, I've been biting my tongue because what I have to say is probably not what you want to hear. Take it with as many grains of salt as you like; I'm just relating my first-hand experience in Indoctro-land. Perhaps it will spur others into responding or refuting.

          About 10-12 years ago, I was very interested in Indoctro for my TB mare. I asked VDL (can't remember his first name, but it was the van de Lageweg family member who runs the stud) about breeding my TB mare to Indoctro to produce an eventer.

          First off, I want to say that I've never encountered a stallion owner as prompt, honest and helpful as the VDL guy. Email was like instant messaging. There was no sugar-coating. There was no 'selling'. There was no I-am-VDL-I-know-more-than-you. There was genuine enthusiasm for breeding, lots of detailed knowledge, and the assumption that a random emailer like me was an intelligent breeder.

          He did not recommend Indoctro for my mare. He recommended against it. He didn't think I'd get the jump or gallop for an eventer. When I asked him if he'd recommend any of his stallions for a TB mare to produce an eventer, he thought about it and said 'Corland, for the canter.' This was before Corland had proven himself as a sire of eventers, so it seems that VDL was correct in that assessment.

          I have seen several Indoctro offspring, one in eventing and a couple in SJ. The ones I saw were nice-looking and could jump, but they all had a tendency to jump from wherever and hang in the air. The opposite of catty, in other words. (I have no idea what the dams of these horses were like.)

          I haven't seen this VDL Windsor so I have no idea how he reflects on Indoctro or vice-versa.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Thank you for your imput JER, good to know.
            One horse you may be familar with in terms of VDL Windsor is his half-brother, VDL Ulando, who was showing promise as an eventer (won at Advanced) but who so very sadly and tragically died in that terrible trailer accident.
            A Fine Romance. April 1991 - June 2016. Loved forever.

            Comment


            • #7
              I am going to go look at a 3 year old gelding by Infinity who is by Indoctro this week. Not broke yet and I don't know all the details about this youngster. Infinity stands here in California.
              Bethe Mounce
              Head Trainer, AmeriCan Romance Equestrian
              https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRomanceEquestrian
              Brentwood CA

              Comment


              • #8
                We ourselves have an Ahorn mare and have the good fortune to have procured several doses of Ahorn FS which we intend to use judiciously. We expect to add power and a superb canter with it. Further, he is know to be a broodmare sire extraordinaire and any fillies we have from him will be keepers, although the colts will be available for sale.

                We are considering using Indoctro with one of our mares next year before he becomes really too old. We would like very much to hear further information from those more familiar with his offspring. We are aware of some pros and cons, but also know that the Indoctros are highly marketable.
                Sakura Hill Farm
                Now on Facebook

                Young and developing horses for A-circuit jumper and hunter rings.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Bethe, I'd be very interested in your observations and impressions.

                  SH - I envy you having an Ahorn mare. I've only seen video of him jumping, but he was so impressive.
                  A Fine Romance. April 1991 - June 2016. Loved forever.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Fred View Post
                    Bethe, I'd be very interested in your observations and impressions.

                    SH - I envy you having an Ahorn mare. I've only seen video of him jumping, but he was so impressive.
                    I will "report" back. :-) As far as I know, this three year old isn't backed yet, wears a saddle and bridle but no rider yet....gee, that might turn out to be me! ;-) He is owned by a dear friend of mine. No brand on him. I know nothing about his dam....but rest assured, I am gonna get as much info as I can! ;-)
                    Bethe Mounce
                    Head Trainer, AmeriCan Romance Equestrian
                    https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRomanceEquestrian
                    Brentwood CA

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Fred View Post
                      One horse you may be familar with in terms of VDL Windsor is his half-brother, VDL Ulando, who was showing promise as an eventer (won at Advanced) but who so very sadly and tragically died in that terrible trailer accident.
                      But VDL Ulando was by Corland!

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12


                        I did say Windsor was Ulando's half-brother, which of course does mean out of the same dam (not the same sire).
                        A Fine Romance. April 1991 - June 2016. Loved forever.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JER View Post
                          I'll bite...

                          I have seen several Indoctro offspring, one in eventing and a couple in SJ. The ones I saw were nice-looking and could jump, but they all had a tendency to jump from wherever and hang in the air. The opposite of catty, in other words. (I have no idea what the dams of these horses were like.)

                          .
                          Hmm. A very odd post.
                          Indoctro is ranked # 2 on the USEF Jumper sire list and # 12 on the Hunter sire list. He is ranked in the 20's somewhere on the eventing Sire list but I can't pay too much attention that list because the eventers aren't required to record with USEF till they get to a fairly high level so many of a stallions offspring aren't counted in those standings.

                          But based on his success as a sire I'd say you need to see a few more. And I think there is a thread on this forum about a GP jumper son of Indoctro.

                          OP. sometimes instead of asking an opinion of a bunch of clueless people it might be better to do some research first?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Fred, I think you get my point. Ulando was by Corland, who is the stallion that VDL recommended for producing horses suitable for eventing. Windsor is out of the same dam, but by a stallion which they did not recommend for that purpose.

                            There is an Indoctro son, called No Limit, who stands in the UK and has produced some quality eventers. You can see him here. His dam had a fair amount of TB blood.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by S A McKee View Post
                              Hmm. A very odd post.
                              Nice edit job on my post. You'd like to pretend that I don't do any real research on stallions but that is not the case.

                              The Indoctro offspring that put him on the USEF eventing sires list are a couple of lower-level horses. That doesn't count for much.

                              S A McKee, I'd like to think that we're all here because we're interested in horses and sharing information about them. But you seem far more interested in being rude to someone every single time you post. Because I've seen it so many times in so many situations on this board, I assume your need to be a jerk is a compulsion, and for that I express my deepest sympathies.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                SAMck, far from 'clueless', I have a great deal of respect for the knowledge and experience of the members of this bb.
                                And as for your suggestion that I do some research first, thank you for that.
                                I can assure you that I did. I can look at pictures, pedigrees and videos as well as anyone.
                                A friend of mine (an UL UK rider) even went and rode the horse and called her friend, the coach of the German team, about him.

                                She loves AFR,is impressed by the offspring she has ridden and seen go, loves the mare I am breeding,(a full sister to a winning GP Jumper, another of my homebreds) and wants to purchase this foal for export to the UK.

                                By asking my original question I was simply hoping for some more personal experience/insight into those individuals, if possible.
                                A Fine Romance. April 1991 - June 2016. Loved forever.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I am officially putting myself out on the proverbial limb. I am not a horse breeder and am still very much in the 'learning' category so take it with a good grain of salt.

                                  We have a Indoctro x Voltair gelding. He is a sweet heart. Very green still despite being 6 (he is huge and *thankfully* wasn't started until very late). We are novices and have brought him along from basically scratch (30 days under saddle when we bought him). Beautiful horse at all of his honest 17.2 sticked.

                                  Temperament wise he is very sweet. Hacks on a buckle. Has done hunter paces/fun stuff and didn't get worried. Will go out hacking alone, will go through the creek. Beautiful movement. Could probably cut it as a straight dressage horse (our dressage coach loves him) but we are aiming him at eventing.

                                  He will do ditches and *loves* to jump. Likes to take a little bit of a long spot but is brave and goes for it. Sensitive and really tries to please his person. Very careful with the jumps, he does not touch them. As far as he is concerned that is unacceptable. Honest and will still try when the human misses/gives him an imperfect ride.

                                  A little bit of a one person horse - while he is happy to work for me his heart really belongs to my BF. A round canter but I don't think that he will have trouble making time in the lower divisions. Time will tell. The couple of times we have opened him up to go he has been very pleased to do so.

                                  Fred - I believe you know my coach. Talk to Kim in London about him or PM me for videos if you want to see where he is at/what he has been doing. She rode him for a bit when BF was sidelined with a broken foot so she can probably tell you a better take than a mere novice like I can!

                                  Edited to add - he has marvellous bone. Solid strong tree trunk legs and good solid hooves. While the 'leggy' type his bone is substantial which is a personal big bonus in my books - I'm very anti the WB on toothpicks look.
                                  Last edited by Mouse&Bay; Sep. 26, 2012, 07:37 AM. Reason: one more thought...

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    My friend had an Indoctro. Took her from he Ch/Ad jumpers to the 1.4m, but, would have a rail. So, enough jump for the LL jumpers, and carted her around safely, but not quite enough for the next level & not particularly careful. Also had one of those big, round, canters I can't imagine staying sound in eventing land, or wanting to ride XC Very tall.

                                    But, that's n=1 And if you read, something that will teach a rider the ropes at 1.4 with a huge-round step is nice, but...

                                    One thing I remember, is that I didn't see many of his get while I was in Europe. As a dam-sire I remember a few, but, that's about it. To me, this generally means, a better option exists for their mare base. Now, on our mare base he might work, but, I still think their are better options. Particularly in event-land where that canter needs to function in several ways.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Thank you to both goodmorning and mouse&bay - good info.



                                      Mouse and Bay, yes I do know Kim, thank you!
                                      Last edited by Fred; Sep. 27, 2012, 07:32 AM.
                                      A Fine Romance. April 1991 - June 2016. Loved forever.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Ahorn should contribute to a superb canter also!

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