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"Old Style" Warmbloods

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  • "Old Style" Warmbloods

    Now, I don't want or intend to start a war here. The one quality Warmblood I have owned has been "New Style." She was the most wonderful animal I could imagine owning, my horse of a lifetime, and I loved her to pieces. I have nothing against the new style guys.

    That being said, I admit that I have an affinity for the more old fashioned guys. I love their look, their minds, the powerful way they move and the fact that if they set themselves up not to get out of the way, it looks like nothing short of a tank could get them to move.

    Aurum intrigued me, on another thread, when she mentioned that, in Germany, these old fashioned guys are still being bred. I would love to know more about this. How many countries do this, keep the "foundation" stock viable so that they have it to cross back to if the need arises. Are these old style Warmbloods ever sold? Does anyone have any pictures of what exactly is being bred today?

    And, most interestingly to me, are there breeders in the US who knowingly breed these heavier horses? Is there a place for them here? Well, I know I'd buy one, if I had the money, but I wonder how many more of me there are out there?

    ---------------------------
    "This it be die most importante thing in die world, that someone they loff us."
    Willem
    If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.
    Desmond Tutu
  • Original Poster

    #2
    Now, I don't want or intend to start a war here. The one quality Warmblood I have owned has been "New Style." She was the most wonderful animal I could imagine owning, my horse of a lifetime, and I loved her to pieces. I have nothing against the new style guys.

    That being said, I admit that I have an affinity for the more old fashioned guys. I love their look, their minds, the powerful way they move and the fact that if they set themselves up not to get out of the way, it looks like nothing short of a tank could get them to move.

    Aurum intrigued me, on another thread, when she mentioned that, in Germany, these old fashioned guys are still being bred. I would love to know more about this. How many countries do this, keep the "foundation" stock viable so that they have it to cross back to if the need arises. Are these old style Warmbloods ever sold? Does anyone have any pictures of what exactly is being bred today?

    And, most interestingly to me, are there breeders in the US who knowingly breed these heavier horses? Is there a place for them here? Well, I know I'd buy one, if I had the money, but I wonder how many more of me there are out there?

    ---------------------------
    "This it be die most importante thing in die world, that someone they loff us."
    Willem
    If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.
    Desmond Tutu

    Comment


    • #3
      Hello Louise,
      I will post links to the Alt-Oldenburger, the former base of the Oldenburg horse, they are still bred in Oldenburg area and in Thuringia and Saxony in East Germany where I live. Here the government is paying the breeders some prime if they breed these horses to not get lost. There are plenty of these gorgeous and powerful but still elegant horses. My farrier is famous in breeding them - his are all shiny black. His horses are used for driving at marriages and fun excursions. They are mostly dark bay, seal brown or black.
      Here are the links:
      http://www.schweres-warmblut.com/Alt...burger___.html
      http://www.bauerpower.de/of-aol/index2.htm
      and here is the FN count of how many are in existence - you see there are only few:
      http://data.fn-dokr.de/data/home/2/665.pdf

      http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.de
      Top class and exceptional colored German Warmblood Sporthorses

      ***Jealousy is the sincerest form of flattery - Maas J. Hell ***
      Gwendolyn
      http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com
      Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabians

      Comment


      • #4
        I am a fan of the modern "Thoroughbredy" build... I have always liked leggy refined horses (probably because I was raised around Arabs). But I know there are some great old style breeders. I know a FABULOUS 4th level dressage Hanoverian mare, sabino chestnut, that is just what you describe. She has had a few foals and two of them really retained her type. This is what the breeder wanted because they felt this type was strong enough to really go far (but they gave up some of the pizazz for that strength).

        My opinion is that a some horses that carry Grande up close come out very old-style, whether planned or not. Time after time I have seen full siblings and one looks like Grande and the other looks like the refined stallion or dam. It's amazing to me! Anyway, the old style is still out there, and a lot of the "old-style" breeders still keep and cherish that type for all of their strengths.

        No doubt about it, we need to keep this old-style for the sake of diversity and "backbone" for future direction (if we get too refined). Let me know if want details on where to find these bigger warmbloods and I can PT you - no advertising here!

        Comment


        • #5
          Interestingly I bred my mare to one of these types. Not so much as the heavier type (he is more rounder than what you usually see today) but more of the breeding style that they used (with a great deal of success) in the past.

          This was more toward 1 heavy to 1 light (TB or Trak) back to heavier for 1 generation then back to more half and half then may go either way depending on the result. What I am trying to point out is that TB or Trak was infused about every 1 or 2 generations (just enough to put a little blood in the mix).

          A perfect example of this type of cross is Alhrich (sp) Klimpke olympic dressage horse ( TB sire and old style "D" line dam).

          In the site below under the Dancing Lite albumn you can see my guy's sire and judge for yourself.

          http://community.webshots.com/user/dancinglite

          Comment


          • #6
            My mare is more old style than refined. I have no idea why. Puritano is her sire, and he's not enormous. Her dam was a TB, very elegant and refined. She's a truck! I bred her to a more refined stallion, so we'll have to see what the baby looks like!

            Predjudice is a poor substitute for thought.

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm going to have to say that our WB's are definatly the stockier out of the ones in our area. I don't know how they compare to to real old styles but you can tell they are WB's and not just big TB's. Funny thing is that 2 are TB crosses :lol :lol I like um

              ~ they tease you cause they like you ~
              ~ they tease you cause they like you ~

              Comment


              • #8
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aurum:
                Hello Louise,
                I will post links to the Alt-Oldenburger, the former base of the Oldenburg horse, they are still bred in Oldenburg area and in Thuringia and Saxony in East Germany where I live. Here the government is paying the breeders some prime if they breed these horses to not get lost. There are plenty of these gorgeous and powerful but still elegant horses. My farrier is famous in breeding them - his are all shiny black. His horses are used for driving at marriages and fun excursions. They are mostly dark bay, seal brown or black.
                Here are the links:
                http://www.schweres-warmblut.com/Alt...burger___.html
                http://www.bauerpower.de/of-aol/index2.htm
                and here is the FN count of how many are in existence - you see there are only few:
                http://data.fn-dokr.de/data/home/2/665.pdf

                http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.de
                Top class and exceptional colored German Warmblood Sporthorses

                ***Jealousy is the sincerest form of flattery - Maas J. Hell ***<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                There is one Alt-Oldenburger causing some attention at the moment over here in my area: That stallion won the Bundeschampionat for driving a few years aga. Now at the age of 8 or 9 he is ridden by Leonie Bramall from Canada(trained with Jo Hinnemann, is already a long time in Germany). this horse is now showing successfully at level Intermediare.
                http://www.bramall-dusche.de/gestuet_fotogalerie.htm It should be the horse in the last row to the left. (if I remember him right...) He is an impressive horse. Does not look very heavy as the Alt-Oldenburgs I know that are used for driving, but still he looks different than "normal" warmbloods.

                Alexandra


                I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC

                http://alexandra-fischer.privat.t-online.de
                I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
                www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
                2017: March: Filly by Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - SPS Prince Thatch
                May: Finnigan - Sandro Hit - SPS Rouletto

                Comment


                • #9
                  Unfortunately Volker has forgotten to put the "who is who" on these pictures. I guess I will have to let him know

                  http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.de
                  Top class and exceptional colored German Warmblood Sporthorses

                  ***Jealousy is the sincerest form of flattery - Maas J. Hell ***
                  Gwendolyn
                  http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com
                  Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabians

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    That is a great link - but I'm laughing over the dog hidden in the middle.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I just LOVE the older style warmblood, hence my collection of Diamont mares and a Waldhorn mare. I even crossed Diamont onto my Waldhorn mare and have kept the filly! She's a gorgeous seal brown black and I adore her. I'm thinking of breeding her to Wonderful!

                      Sonesta Farms - breeding Hanoverian, Knabstrupper and Arabian sport horses.&lt;BR&gt;
                      "Find something you love & call it work."
                      Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have stock piled as many old type mares as I can. I am trying my best to produce more of them.

                        It's a challenge.

                        I love these power horses.

                        Donna

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So what lines are you looking for to throw olderstyle wbs here? I haven't focused on that (I like a tb type) but I think it is interesting. It seemed to me that maybe stallions with Gotthard close up might be more likely to throw an older style? Yes? NO? It sounds like Sonesta has had luck with Diamont mares? ANy other lines for lookers who want something more "warmbloody"?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I like Duo, Weingau, Fierabend, Valerik, Grande, Demogogin, Elfenwache, Ossian, Polarstern, Welt, Duft II, Absatz, Almanach, Espadron, Ostrjak, Hrisolit ...

                            all this stuff kind of mixed in combinations or together comes out really, really nice.

                            Donna
                            Carson Farm

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have an old style mare who is a granddaughter of Duft II and great granddaughter of Grande.

                              You can see a pic of Grande and Duft II here: Stallions
                              As is our confidence, so is our capacity. ~W. Hazlitt

                              Gift Hill Farm

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I love my old style boy. He doesn't have the light, flamboyant gaits that the modern version has but very powerful clear gaits and a jump to die for. Also, don't know if its the fact he's a stallion, his training or bred into him but his brain is more of a TB forward thinking than a lot of warmbloods I've ridden. Something I'm very grateful for since pushing that big of a horse around would not be my idea of a fun ride. I've ridden one other old style warmblood, Grande a mare, that was the same, very forward and easy to ride. She was also an eventer so don't know if that's a typical trait of the old style horses or a result of training.
                                As to bloodlines, since both of Winston's parents were old, mom was 28 when he was born and dad in his late teens he has a lot of the foundation bloodlines, Ferdinand, Lugano, Pik As, Der Lowe close up.
                                When I took him to the ISR inspection the judges comments were along the line of he's exactly what we'd expect with his pedigree an excellent example of a old style hanoverian but not the direction the registry is going. Haven't bothered to take him anywhere else as I think thses days you'd have more luck getting a donkey approved than one of these old style stallions.
                                I do really like the look of the modern type but think that with the predominantly tb mare base in this country we are going to end up with too light, too TBy and when the older approved stallions die out there will be nothing left to cross back to.
                                www.stallionstation.com/phoenixhill

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  alexandra, do you know the name of that stallion? If you click on each picture the name of the stallion comes up on the larger pic.

                                  They're all beautiful though the dog cracked me up!

                                  rusti I just saw your post. I loff your boy. Have seen him go XC on two occasions and think he is sooo nice. His bloodlines are excellent and I think the registries are going to be sorry that they don't have him available in a few years. In my opinion they're making a big mistake to dismiss them like that. I feel that way about Celtic Witch's stallion too.

                                  Terry
                                  "We don't ride the clock. We ride the horse." Reiner Klimke.
                                  http://community.webshots.com/user/arnikaelf

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Gomez is a great grandson of Grande but by looking at him, could not really tell he was half hannoverian. his mom's side is 3/4's trak. so it really refined him.
                                    we have an old style hanoverian at my barn, down to the big hoofs and big head. I will post a picture ofhim soon. to look at him from the front, he has a ugly head, but to the side it looks noble and certintly goes with his body type. somebody must of thought he was something since he is branded Hanoverian and came from Germany (and he is over 14 years old)

                                    *Arab Clique*Andalusian Clique, Short People/Tall Horse Clique*Quarter Horse Clique*Westphalian Clique*

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Dray---all the usual suspects.

                                      I personally do not like to put too much "G" line together in linebreeding but some lines that are line bred with a little TB or Trak added now and then have produced wonderful results.

                                      On the Hannovarian side--Argentan--Grande (Gottard is in fact a little fine)--Duff 11--Dirk--Grundstein(by Graphit)--Woermann--Winnebago(by Winnetou)and Davos.

                                      Holstein--Landgraf 1--Ramiro Z--Tin Rocco--Farn (by Fax 1)

                                      Oldenberg--Donnerhall--Aachen(by Argentinus)

                                      Swedish--Drabant--Lansiar--Chirac (by Chagall)--Gaspari

                                      Danish--Diamond (by Allegro)--May Sherif--Pilar--Herzog

                                      Dutch--Marius (by Marco Polo)--Nimmerdor--Joost

                                      Belgium--Darco--Didi

                                      The above are just a few of this type of stallions that when crossed with TB and Trak produced notable offspring.

                                      http://community.webshots.com/user/dancinglite

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Landgraf, Tin Rocco and Ramiro surprise me on the list a little. I know Landgraf had the huge neck, but I don't think of his offspring in general as being old type, and the same with Ramiro and Tin Rocco?? Maybe that is bc of the mares I have seen them crossed on, but do you really feel those guys close up in the pedigree will typically give you older style?


                                        Edited to add:

                                        OOPS Didn't see this <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The above are just a few of this type of stallions that when crossed with TB and Trak produced notable offspring<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        I was thinking in terms of what lines would be likely to give you the "old style" that Louise was mentioning - not so much what crosses well on a more refined tb/trak mare. We were going down different lines I guess.

                                        Comment

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