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Color Gurus... Please tell me about Liver Chestnut

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  • Color Gurus... Please tell me about Liver Chestnut

    Curious about how this form of chestnut comes about. I have a mare who has had two chestnut offspring by two different stallions. The first turned a fairly dark liver chestnut and her latest is shedding out to a black looking liver. Her other two foals were a very deep red bay (almost burgundy-ish in color) and a black looking bay.

    I've not had the mare color tested, but here is what I know of her with respect to color in her pedigree:

    1) The mare herself is a black looking bay.
    2) Her sire was the same color black looking bay.
    3) Her dam was an ordinary colored chestnut.
    4) And not sure if it's relevant, but her full sister is ordinary chestnut.

    The sire of the first liver foal was bay. The sire of this most recent liver foal is ordinary chestnut.

    I adore this latest filly and the color is just the icing on the cake. So, if I bred this mare to the same chestnut sire, do we know my odds of getting liver again?

    TIA!
    www.avenir-farm.com

  • #2
    know nothing about it except that I love it!!
    Cornerstone Equestrian
    Home of Amazing (Balou du Rouet/Voltaire) 2005 KWPN Stallion
    RPSI, KWPN reg B, and IHF nominated
    www.cornerstonefarmpa.com

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    • #3
      All I can tell you is:

      It's my FAVORITE color.
      AND
      It's the hardest to actually get.
      Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse & Jennifer Oliver Equine Insurance Specialist

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      • #4
        Love Liver Chestnut!
        Anne
        -------
        "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist

        Comment


        • #5
          We will all cross our fingers for you that you get another one! Sounds like a genetic roll of the dice!

          Wikipedia says: "Liver chestnut or dark chestnut are not a separate genetic color, but a descriptive term. The genetic controls for the depth of shade are not presently understood. Liver chestnuts are a very dark-reddish brown. Liver chestnuts are included in the term "dark chestnut.""

          Comment


          • #6
            My FAVORITE color of all time as well!
            Fresh, Frozen & ISO Warmblood Breedings FB Group

            Comment


            • #7
              I have an Apiro colt out of a seal bay mare with a bay dam and bay stallion who is shedding to a dark (almost black) liver chestnut. I was shocked when the first chestnut let (after the white socks) came out!
              www.threewishesfarm.com
              https://www.facebook.com/ThreeWishesFarm
              Expecting 2017 foals by Vagabond de la Pomme, Cornet Obolensky, Zirocco Blue, Catoki and Christian.

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              • #8
                Cool that people like it so much, cos I have two! My beautiful mare is a 'true' liver, almost violet coloured in the summer, she is by a black stallion out of a liver mare who is by a liver stallion who is by Donnerhall. So that's where it comes from in her I am relatively sure. Her son by Don Frederico (black) is also liver. From what I can surmise, it's pretty obvious from birth, chestnut foals tend to have opaque looking legs where as liver foals are the same colour the whole way down the leg, and when they start to shed out chestnut foals will look liver but liver foals will look BLACK.

                As far as I know my liver mare when bred to black stallions will only produce liver or black? I might have that wrong.

                My liver foal at 9 weeks, shedding.

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's also my favorite cover, hands down. Liver Chestnuts are just so stunning. Those of you lucky enough to have one (or two!), please post pictures so we can drool!
                  "And my good dreams? They all come with a velvet muzzle and four legs. All my good dreams are about horses."--In Colt Blood

                  COTH Barn Rats Clique!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I had a "true" liver colored mare years ago - looked like a hershey bar color- not quite dark chocolate, blaze and a sock or two. Loved it!

                    Current mare is registered liver, though she is a very red color - don't know where that came from...

                    Other horse in the barn is registered liver; he is a brownish color, less red than my current mare, not as dark as my first mare above, maybe a bronze type color. Lots of dapples.

                    I guess its like some other things in life - you know it when you see it.
                    We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I love liver chestnut. Decades ago I had a dark liver chestnut mare with a very light flaxen mane and tail. Thank goodness she was as sweet as she was stunning.
                      Free bar.ka and tidy rabbit.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Best odds - breed liver to liver.

                        Very unpredictable, even in that situation.

                        MOST chestnut foals - heck, most red-based foals - shed the first time very dark. Very, very common for regular chestnut foals to shed to "liver" the first time, very very common for palomino foals to shed "black" the first time.

                        Don't put any faith in that first foal shed

                        Most chestnuts are not liver. Most chestnut foals shed "liver" - that oughta tell you something
                        ______________________________
                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                        • #13
                          Madamlb- I have never had a liver chestnut (or poss liver chestnut foal) is the black color around his eyes look like a liver chestnut to you? His body is now turning a black color as well. Here is hoping
                          www.threewishesfarm.com
                          https://www.facebook.com/ThreeWishesFarm
                          Expecting 2017 foals by Vagabond de la Pomme, Cornet Obolensky, Zirocco Blue, Catoki and Christian.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I love them! Such a stunning color (esp when there's chrome).
                            Proud member of the Snort and Blow Clique

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JB View Post

                              MOST chestnut foals - heck, most red-based foals - shed the first time very dark. Very, very common for regular chestnut foals to shed to "liver" the first time, very very common for palomino foals to shed "black" the first time.

                              Don't put any faith in that first foal shed

                              Most chestnuts are not liver. Most chestnut foals shed "liver" - that oughta tell you something
                              Interesting. I have been breeding for a long time, had lots of chestnut foals, and for the first time this year I have a foal who shed out liver. Hopefully she stays that way, because it is a beautiful color, but I do question you saying most chestnut foals shed out dark for the first time. That isn't true in my experience, or that of my breeder friends.
                              Mystic Owl Sporthorses
                              www.mysticowlsporthorses.com

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by RanchoAdobe View Post
                                Madamlb- I have never had a liver chestnut (or poss liver chestnut foal) is the black color around his eyes look like a liver chestnut to you? His body is now turning a black color as well. Here is hoping
                                He is stunning!
                                Free bar.ka and tidy rabbit.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I like the idea of calling it "chocolate chestnut" so much better!

                                  Liver chestnut is descriptive but not so nice as chocolate!

                                  And your colt looks to have a heck of an engine back there! Nice!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Liver chestnuts are beautiful... My mare's sire is a liver chestnut, not super-dark but definitely liver. And there is a Arab/Hanoverian cross mare where I board who is a very dark liver chestnut. Both these horses have a little "bling" which enhances the liver even more.
                                    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

                                    1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

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                                    • #19
                                      Would you consider him Liver?
                                      http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/a.../stevie-e1.jpg

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Yes, RanchAdobe, I think he will turn out chestnut (nice foal!).
                                        I have a Rubignon colt this year from a liver chestnut dam. Started out golden.
                                        Last year another golden one turned liver on shedding out. Grandson of the liver chestnut mare, he was by Sir Donnerhall (bay) by a Contendro (bay) mare - so the liver seemed to be from grandma.
                                        Here is this year's http://www.sunnydayshanoverians.com/...etmanAug23.jpg
                                        and his dam http://www.sunnydayshanoverians.com/brood/Ester2.jpg
                                        Sunny Days Hanoverians
                                        http://www.sunnydayshanoverians.com

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